Mitch

G'Day Gents,

Could some of you more experienced pilots give us the correct procedures for rotor blade management given say a 5 knot wind upon landing and subsequent taxiing to the pull up area.

The hypothetical gyro has a rotor brake.

Please advise what and when with respect to the blades.

(The concern here is with respect to blade flap at any stage whilst taxiing and pulling up.)

Thanks.

Mitch.

Brian

Ahhh, a favorite topic of mine and one that will provide as many different answers in relation to the amount of replies you get.


Okay, you say " when landing" so basically when taxying into the wind, I want the rotors to slow down so I push the stick forward to allow the gyro to taxy easily and the rotors start to slow but at the same time, ideally, you do not want the rotors slowing under 80 revs if taxying over rough ground. If your taxyway is smooth, than all is well.With a 5 knot wind, spooling down should not result in blade flap provided stick is held in the direction of the wind untill blades have slowed to a safe speed to catch them. With Patroney blades, you may find that they tend to flap when slowing down to about 30 revs if you do not have the tips under the wind and you may need to re position the gyro to have the wind at the side so that you can get the tips of the blade as far down as possible.

When taxying while slowing down, make sure stick is held in a neutral position [center] or stick slightly into the wind .

Got to go, Rosie has a lovely lunch ready so I'm off !!

Will chat later about what to do in 40 knot winds !!:eek::eek:

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

Brian

Actually, probably not a good idea to say what I do in a 40 knot breeze in case someone tries it and gets it wrong cause it wouldn't be pretty.

The Patroney blades, being more flexible, can be interesting to start and stop in really strong breezes.

Questions about how to do something, specially by someone who knows the answers are usually loaded questions but I'm sure Mitch, that in your case you are wanting clarification on something.

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

russ

Hope you had a good lunch...........

As to blades, yea curly one..........best fit a damn good rotor brake.

__________________
State of origin..........go the maroons

I intend living forever...........so far so good.

Brian

Excellent lunch Russ !!! and boy, did we have an top dinner followed by an apricot crumble tonight !

Yeah, the lad said he had a rotor brake and in this you have bought up a good point, in less than ideal situations, the quicker you get the blades stopped, the better!!

A good example of this is a year or two ago, I had landed and was just sitting there, relaxing, enjoying being in a place that wasn't bobbing around like a cork in the ocean. Rosie was about 100 yards away, and her line of sight was level with the rotors, as they were spooling down, a something hit, fortunately for me, the rotors had enough revs on them not to flap but I felt a shake. Rosie's description was that she actually saw the rotors ripple, right from the tip at the front to the rearward tip .The ripple was quite severe.

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

Mitch

G'Day Brian,

I am indeed looking for advice and will always be learning.

At different flyins I have observed after both, zero roll and roll on landings, Blokes taxing the gyro with the disc partially presented to the relative airflow (stick not full forward, with disc flat).

When you say Neutral position Brian, do you mean full forward, slightly tilted toward the wind if need be but essentially in the neutral middle forward stick position? OR do you mean ....centered and in the straight and level position...

What I'm getting at is taxiing with 4 or 5 degrees of frontal disc presented to the wind a normal type procedure or should we after landing with a reasonable patch to work with, be getting the stick full forward and neutral unless otherwise required to put the 'edge' of the disc under the oncoming wind? Am I making any sense.
My concern would be that a fly over might be a possibility?????

Just throwing a few ideas around.

Seems to me a lot of our accidents are ground/blade management issues and I'm wanting to know if I have missed out on some training in this area. Lameroo was a dream, lots of take-offs and landings, Cranbourne long circuits much less practice at the bottom end

Russ....talked to my Mate in the US today, said get a real good pre-rotator and a good brake to go with it.

Still looking for how some of you blokes view this and how you operate.

Cheers,

Mitch.

Waddles

Gidday Gents,

My two bob's worth on the subject:

My RAFTOR head is set up such that with the stick fully forward, the angle of attack of the disc is -2 deg. My technique in ANY wind after landing is to lower the nose after landing, then use full forward stick whilst taxiing into the wind. I think the theory is that a negative disc angle causes the rotors to slow down quite rapidly, especially in the initial stages. I recall some years ago on the Yank forum that someone said that in-flight, negative disc angle will cause the rotor RPM to decay at a rate of 100 RPM per second. Obviously, the slower rotor speed on the ground and the slower relative airspeed will result in a slower rate of decay.

This is all well and good whilst one is taxiing into, or almost into wind. The problem arises when a turn is necessary and the headwind becomes a crosswind. I use the same technique but tilt the rotors into the wind somewhat. Remember here that we are looking for RELATIVE wind, so that will be the resultant of the forward speed and the wind speed and direction. An average I guess is the easiest way to put it. A wet finger held up in the breeze will give a fair indication of the reltive wind, as will the yaw string in some cases. If you get it wrong, as the blades slow down, the onset of rotor flap will be felt through the stick. At this stage, best to stop and follow the reommended technique for dealing with rotor flap.

If the stick is not fully forward and flapping occurs, there is a real possibility that the rotors will hit the ground in the 7 - 8 oçlock position before one expects it.

Brian's point about maintaining rotor RPM whilst taxiing over rough ground is very valid. The large diameter composite blades have a lot of flex and will "ripple" if not spun up enough over rough ground. This in itself can lead to premature flapping as well.

In a nutshell, maintain rotor RPM whilst taxiing over rough ground, then head into wind and keep the stick full forward until it's possible to slow the rotors manually. If possible, leave the engine running until the rotors are stopped, as people are less likely to approach the gyro if its engine is running.

Start shooting guys !!

Waddles.

russ

Agree with the aboves..........as well as

get a good pre rotator, and a damn good rotor brake system.

Can recall an incidence back some....landed into a ripper of headwinds, huge gusts bashing me as well. Getting the blades to stopped was alarming, "plan B'
took off again, then landed downwind, pulled up, kept the stick fully back and let the blades wind down. Battling with those gusts was interesting to say the least.

So ensure you can spin em up and shut em down real quick.

__________________
State of origin..........go the maroons

I intend living forever...........so far so good.

SamL

Hi Mitch.
I can only tell you what works for me. First I should start off by saying I fly a set of (heavy) Glass blades.
During my landing and flair I typically land tail wheel followed by mains. Once the machine is firmly down I ease the stick forward placing the nose wheel down onto the tarmac. Once down, I keep stick full forward (rotor level)
I will usually sit there until all is under full control and I am happy to commence my taxiing (usually about 3-8 seconds)
During taxiing I always keep the rotor disc tilted into wind. The angle does depend on the wind speed as to much can cause flapping. Since the blades are now normally only coasting, any flapping is easily controlled anyway.
If taxiing for a long period over rough ground I will always use my pre-rotator when taxiing down or cross wind. Up wind I use both wind and pre-rotator.
This is what works for me, and in no way a suggestion of what others should do!!!!

Regards SamL

__________________
-- Leonardo da Vinci --

Mitch

G'Day Gents,

Very helpfull fellas.

Now after landing on rough terrain, with the possibility of some distance to taxi and no pre-rotator, the need to keep the centripedal forces in the blades (stiff and supporting their own weight), then is it a reasonable process to keep some back stick to keep the rotors spinning, during this protracted taxiing?

Appreciate all the comments.

Mitch