Birdy2

Yes, i know, its a badly flogged horse, but theres sumthn that is dangerous bout turning downwind, specialy at low altitudes.
A good friend of mine who is new to gyros, [and flyn generaly] has found out the hard way that there IS a danger. He's got a compleatly totaled machine to prove it. [ with the only things salvageable be'n the 912 and the stick grip.] But, thank whoever you like, he didnt get a single scratch.
He has just over 100 hours in a machine i'd describe as a perfect mustering machine, a real pochet rocket. Single open machine with 26' extru blades and a trusty 912. Perfect. He's wot sum people call gifted wen it came to flyn, coz he 'clicked' so early in his flyn time, with beautifuly smooth exicution of every manouver he did, and was careful and precise.
So, why did this bloke smash this machine while do'n nuthn but a routine turn?
To put it simply, he chose the wrong time to turn down wind.
His mistake wasnt coz he was incompitant, complacent or reckless. It was coz he turned downwind INTO A STRONG WIND SHEAR. [ this machine could climb at better than 1800 fpm.]
This air he hit was decending fast, at less than 200' alt and as it neared the ground, it accelerated in the same direction he was traveling, downwind. So the further he flew into it, the stronger the virtical component became, AND the stronger the tail wind got till he reached the point where he had no AS, No lift and no alt, no options, but he had a dangerously high ground speed. A ground speed that ment that if there was contact, it was over. If you touch the ground at this point you have very little control over wot happens next, coz if the power is still on, you wont slow down, but if you chop power, you have no rudder authority, and the rotors, with the strong tail wind, will be next to usless in as far as keeping you upright goes. This is a pretty scarey picture. Scootn along at probably 60 odd kmh with next to no directional control. Itd be scarey in the middle of an airstrip, but its happened to me plenty of times in tall timber country, which is where it happened to this bloke.
Theres nuthn any training, machine modification, or warning devise could have done to prevent this from happening. Coz it was caused by ignorance It would have happened to anyone, in any aircraft in the same situation if they didnt know bout these gremlins. The only thing that 'could' have had sum bearing on a better outcome would have been if id told him bout these f^%$# invisable gremlins.
I dont know if its fate or sumthn, but as i drove home from my own mustern job [ after striken a few of these little basterds] i remember thinkn to meself, 'id better ring ol mate tnite and hava yarn bout these before he hits one.'
Too late of course coz wen i got home, Liz said ### just rang, and he's got bad news.

I wont say any more bout this incident but to say he contacted the ground, so ill leave the rest to your imagination. [ and no, i wont mention his name ]


So, to those who recon theres no difference between up and down wind turns, watch your step.
Your rite, to a point.
If you keep a constant AS, bank angle and power setting, AND THE WIND IS ALSO CONSTANT AND HORISONTAL, then yes, there is no difference.
But wen mum nature recons you need a wakeup, you'll certainly be woken up.
If you know wot to do, your likely to get out of it, but if your ignorant to wot nature is capable of, then youll get caught every time.


Iv said it before and ill say it again, how many accidents happen wen the craft turned upwind?

Gyrodes

Birdy, Thanks for posting that and sorry about the old mates machine, good to hear he is not hurt and can tell ya what happened.
Des Garvin

__________________
What you focus on grows. Des Garvin

SamL

I hope it wasn't the light blue Rosco we all saw at the Nationals Birdy
As long as it was only the machine that broke, then thats fine. ( I guess )

Sam.

__________________
-- Leonardo da Vinci --

Brian

I'm really sorry to hear that Birdy, of course, the old timers will tell you that the 50 & 100 hours are real danger times. Why, ?? a bit like what happens when you pick the wrong time to turn downwind!! The text books will tell you that it DOESN'T MATTER WHICH WAY YOU TURN BECAUSE ITS ALL THE FLAMIN SAME. No, its not all the same and Birdy has just described the whole event with beautiful articulation.

I'm really pleased to hear ****** walked away okay!!!!!

I have been a bit like you Birdy, struck a few of these 'gremilins' from time to time , scraped my backside along the paddock doing what feels like a million miles an hour, using every bit of ability/ nous/ whatever and every time you mentioned it happened when you turned downwind, you get howled down by the so called experts [DRIPS UNDER EXTREME PRESSURE ] who haven't encountered the conditions described by Birdy. I reckon you ought to right a book Birdy, would be a best seller !!

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

Birdy2

A book ????
Bloodyell, it took me 4 hours to rite that one post mate, i dont recon id live long enuff to rite a book. Besides, wot would i put init

bones

Actually this is fairly well off topic, but i think if we all get together and sent a few stories of things that have hapened, and seen, it would make a real good read, damn i got near a full chapter from just one visit to the NT, more to come next year i'm sure.

__________________
http://www.zenogyro.com.au
Good gyroplanes are not cheap, cheap gyroplanes are not necessarily good

ken watson

I think the names say it all.....DOWNwind.......UPwind. Goin down, climbing up. Have hit that fast wind that feels like a lull, ground coming up fast and going past fast and max power doesnt do much. I think the fact that your balls are rising up through your neck eventually helps the machine climb. The tail wind also makes a coarse pitched prop cavitate and so response seems slower. Ken

Brian

Yep, 4 hours to the page, its not going to be quick but it would be a 'must read!! It wouldnt matter what you wrote about, just the way you say stuff is enjoyable to read or listen too.

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

gbw

"If you know wot to do, your likely to get out of it, but if your ignorant to wot nature is capable of, then youll get caught every time."

Birdy,

So what do you do? Turn back down wind, full throttle and stick just slighty back? Bounce off grass tussocks?
Your mate must have done something right to come out OK. Glad that he did.

Graham

Birdy2

Was wundern if anyone was go'n to ask that Graham.
It all depends on the depth of the sh1t your in once you realise your init, and your 'familuarity' of the machine's capabilities.
If you are well aquainted with the machine, and your own ability, then you shouldnt fly DW any lower than an alt that you KNOW you can safly do a quick 180* turn, WITHOUT power before you hit the ground with the AS your at.
This alt min will give you room to manuver if you hit one of these gremlins, and the 'engine out' part of it will simulate pretty closely the effect of hitn one. IOW, if you dont recon your high enuf to chop power and turn bac into the wind, your too low. Itll differ between machine typs and pilot skill levels, but its the bare min you should fly DW.
Sumthn like the ferel has consistantly turned 180* DW without power from 50' easly for years, but sumthn as hardmouthed as a Magni would JUST make it from 200', if your ready for it.
If your puttn along at your min DW alt and you feel it starting to drop, start turning immeadiately while you have room, if it turns out to be just one of them little holes, you have nuthn to fear, you just streighten out and fly off. But if is one of these bursts, then your ready for it and have already taken action to avoid it.
If, however, you find yourself too low by the time you realise in the sh1t, then all you can do is hold the throttle full open, and keep the machine JUST off the ground WITH THE STICK and hope like hell your machine has the power to fly out. Any attempt to hold alt will only deepn the sh1t level coz all your do'n is traden AS for alt, and in this situation , AS is better than alt. And, wen your JUST off the ground, you only have to contend with the increasing tail wind component, coz at ground level, the air cant go any lower, so theres no down draft component.
Also, tryn to turn out of it would have a very low success rate, coz you could well be turning into a stronger tail wind, deepening the sh1t, and any deviation from streight will cost you AS and alt, 2 things you wont have any of to spare.
At NO time do you stop flyn, coz the machine will happily crash if you let it.
If you dont have the power to stay off the ground, and you make contact, chop the throttle and try your best to hold it streight with rudder AND stick, and again, hope like hell.
OL mate survived without a scratch coz, even wen he knew he was dusted, he still TRYED to keep it upright. IOW, he was still 'flyn' it after the rotors took off, and the machine was in pices. Soon's the movement and noise stopped, he unbuckled and got out of wot was left of the machine.

The best defence against these basterds is to stay well above YOUR/YOUR MACHINE'S danger zone.

Note; im no expert at this sorta thing, so dont take this post as gospel. Its only the observations iv gained after bout 3000 hours of mustern with these hazards.