Sky Gazer

Hi Guys,

As a bystander keen to purchase and learn to fly Gyros it is extremely disheartening with the number of incidents that have occured in just the past 15 months that I have been a member of this forum.Then again there have been a spate of Ultralight accidents as well over the same period.

Can anyone tell me if this is the norm or have there simply been a LOT of unlucky incidents.

I sure as hell wouldn't let my wife scan this forum or I would never get off the ground at all :

Peter

Mitch

G'Day Peter,

You really need your wife on board here. If she aint with you Mate, they is dead set against you and your new found 'mistress'...the gyroplane.

The last 15 months has been ordinary to say the least, though not the norm and as we move forward the Ops Mgr and the ASRA Board are working hard to make determinations and then act to limit/remove from the future stats through AD's and Training, new operational procedures ect.

Lots of fixed wing ultralight crashes to show your wife that the auto gyro are as safe as any other form of aviation and most of us would argue even safer. Rotor handling/management along with all the other flying skills and maintenance requirements are the key to safe gyro flight.

There have been a lot of unlucky incidents.....you need your wife to be happy and supportive of your decision to fly gyros, or else life will be hell for you. Best thing to do is be honest with her and never let her read the filth we put on here Seriously Peter, I dont think I would be still involved if my darling did not support my passion for the sport. She listens to everything and can hold her own talking to me, Tim Mc or Llewella, Allan Wardill or any other gyronut, I mean gyronaught. My wife has just been through hell and back watching me injure my spine further thru hand spinning at the Nats, of course we lost a fellow member at Easter and now with my two Tassie Mates. Thing is Pete, because Elise understands the theory of autorotation, has knowledge of construction techniques and craft configurations, Is totally versed in all of Greg G's writings and knows call signs of Aussie and Yank alike, has seen me brain fart and re-solo. She is still my biggest supporter of my passion.

It didn't happen over night but the more tech and flight stuff and different machines at different Nats, the more bloke mates she made along the way, including the late Tim Sheahan recently at Lameroo, the more she supports the sport in general.

This is my wife but I hear some other members have not been so lucky. Tell her the truth.

Cheers,

Mitch

russ

pete.....just a quick one

Me missis was uneasy to begin, like mitch says, explain the ins and outs etc to her. Include her.

Lucy [ me missis ] now absolutely loves flying in her gyro [ ours ] she can't get enough of it. She hears of these sad incidences, she grieves for the families / friends, but she has 100% faith / trust in our gyroing. This last year or so of our being grounded because we sold our tandem, to get another machine, has caused "me" some grief, from her, coz she has'nt been able to fly.

For sure, this last year has been "extraordinary", a real sad time. Hopefully we have seen the last of it.

As for the "banter" that goes on here from time to time, no probs, when it comes to helping out each other, we would all step up to the plate..........for sure, to help.

Go find a 2 seater, toss him some bucks for a good fly...........you'll love it

__________________
State of origin..........go the maroons

I intend living forever...........so far so good.

Sky Gazer

Russell,

Still waiting for your round OZ touring /training adventure

I figure I'd better learn to fly before I buy something that may not be suitable?

As for the Mrs. well the heli s probably OK since she figures I'll probably never get it finished- well not in a hurry anyway. An almost ready to fly gyro may be a different kettle of fish.

Mitch,

Thanks for the thought But I am not sure that pointing out the number of aviation incidents in general is likely to help the cause. The most common argument there would be the number of Gyro's coming down would seem to be a much higher percentage than that of RA incidents?

I too hope the future holds smooth sailing - Willie's 99 % comment certainly don't help the public's perception of Gyros being at all safe.

Peter

Mitch

G'Day Peter,

Absolutely right there. Stats can be interpreted in many ways, by the 99% didn't feel good at the time an still doesn't.

You still need her onside with this 'impending obsession' because that's how it can turn out.

And I'm not so sure about the figures anyway.

When for instance you click on an article link re a gyro down, side bar has a bunch more articles regarding fixed wing ultralights through to light commercials and Jets....I think the numbers can work for us.
Having said that, I'm with you if you can avoid that subject or at least avoid being to statistically correct. I'd agree.

Russell makes a great example of how positive the experience can be for both.

Whilst my wife supports me, she never has nor is likely not to ever fly in a gyro, anything smaller than a commercial jet with at least two engines just dont cut it in her book. Important to note here that getting her flying in a commercial jet is not easy, she would rather catch the Bass Strait Ferry. But because of her involvement with stats, the numbers and knowledge side of flying gyro's and an interest in materials and componentry she's me team player.

Russ gets to take his missus flying, that would be great someday if Elise could get over her flying phobia.

I guess if you cant be totally honest, then we need to become more convincing and resourcefull in how we answer questions put to us by loved ones who are not well versed with the aircraft. Acronynms are great and you can always quote the historical greats of the sport....safest aircraft on the planet...and you wouldnt be building you chopper if Cierva had not invented the auto giro...Bedazzle Bamboozel, animate and amplify Peter. Pretty soon she'll be glad to get you out of the house to go flying cause she cant stand hearing you go on about it any more. Gyro's this and gyros that......

As you stated yourself Pete, there have been a spate of ultralight prangs.

Best of Luck with the wife Peter, it has been very bad couple of years, we are due for a long safe flying period.

Cheers,

Mitch

niquenaque

Hi Guys,

**hello

´As a bystander keen to purchase and learn to fly Gyros it is extremely disheartening with the number of incidents that have occured in just the past 15 months that I have been a member of this forum.Then again there have been a spate of Ultralight accidents as well over the same period.´

** All flying is dangerous, in fact any work at any height above ground level is dangerous, if you consult with workcover here in NSW anyone working above a height of 6´ is required to wear a safety harness, ie, the same device I near knee capped myself with a year ago, yes, the old working on the ground trick - squatting down to glue up a conduit and then standing up to get something - harness strap hooks up under the heel of your boot and - oops - over you go, straight onto your knee from 2´ above ground, that hurts!

´Can anyone tell me if this is the norm or have there simply been a LOT of unlucky incidents.´

** all incidents are unlucky, but avoidable in all but the most unusual circumstance. Some people just rush into things they shouldn´t, most incidents are the product of some degree of ignorance by the injured party.

´I sure as hell wouldn't let my wife scan this forum or I would never get off the ground at all :

Peter ´


Peter,

I fly G2066, or used to up until Easter this year -1. Have a look at my post on the ASRA forum site callled ¨G2066 doesn´t look good like this¨.I damaged the rotors and prop due to nose wheel failure when I was taxiing through some rough ground after a forced landing due to an engine failure - the machine flopped over after the nose wheel broke.

You will note in that, that I say I was glad in a gyro when what happened did, because if I had been in an ultralight I think I might have been badly injured or dead. The ability of a Gyro to pull up on a postage stamp means you have a better chance than an ultralight with a 200´ of ground roll to stop safely, it amplifies your chances of survival when something goes wrong, and it would be folly to think that nothing would go wrong.

I was able to survive the engine out through repetitious training, by this I mean practice until you get it right, then practice it until it becomes boring, really, really, really boring and almost as if you could do it with your eyes closed, like taxiing, rotor handling, hops, then crow hops, then circuits, then small excursions, and so on, make it so every landing is an engine out landing, just do it with the throttle closed, learn how to ´crash´ safely before you learn how to fly, then you will survive. I didn´t allow myself off the ground [unless in a 2 seater] without having total mastery of taxiing at high speeds, then I wouldn´t allow myself to circuit without total mastery of hops, the list goes on - ask John Evans - I didn´t let him off the glider as a student until I got 6 perfect landings in a row... he was quite bored by at the end, but he [I´m sure] does not worry about me... maybe.

Hope this helps,

Nick.

bones

Mitch tell her there is a spare seat beside me if she ever wishes to taste our passion for the air, and she will love it as you very well know..

__________________
http://www.zenogyro.com.au
Good gyroplanes are not cheap, cheap gyroplanes are not necessarily good

Fencing Wire

Peter,
Yesterday on the news 1 x passenger jet skidded off the tarmac and incinerated a couple of hundred people, 1 x passenger jet skidded off the tarmac and ended up half in a lake/sea (injuring a heap more). Month or so back ditto in Indonesia - fixed up a few more. They still sell millions of airplane tickets every day and no-one even turns a hair.

Wasn't all that long ago that they had a slogan in Victoria "Declare war on 1064". (That's how many got killed on the roads each year, and another 20,000 got maimed). But people drive cars every day and don't think twice about it. In fact they are so bloody comfortable that you see them whistling along the road with a mobile phone glued to their ear.

If you get out of bed in the morning, its dangerous. If you don't get out of bed in the morning, its dangerous. Have you any idea how many people die on the golf course? Have you any idea how many people die mowing the lawn? Look up the stats on those two, and it'll frighten the Bejeesus out of you.

But its no good to die wondering. If you badly want to fly, then fly. But prepare yourself the absolutely best you can. Get the best training you can. And don't hurry. You'll enjoy it if you follow those steps, and you'll minimise the risk. It sure is dangerous, but so are heaps of other things you do in life.And remember the old saying "It's far better being down here wishing you were up there, than to be up there wishing you were down here". Small and stealthy steps!

The first solo flight is one of those incredible experiences in life. Not unlike one of those other pursuits where a flock of sparrows fly out of your arse.

Cheers

__________________
FW

I can't remember what I did for brains before shit became popular.

Brian

Hi Peter, I agree fully with Mitch, tell your wife the full truth. Although I was already flying when I married Rosie, she supports me totally re gyro flying, she would probably rather I played cricket or something but she supports my wish to fly. Rosie actually had a fly with one of Australia's best gyro builders in Australia's best 2 seat gyro and thoroughly enjoyed the experience. [Thanks again Owen]

I cant answer your question re the number of accidents other to say that some accidents, should have been avoided, how ? by better training and showing gyros the respect they deserve. I believe that FW /helo and sometimes the average gyo student /pilot thinks the gyro too SIMPLE and underestimates the effort needed to fly safely. Of course, the fact that a gyro is like nothing else flying doesn't help either as a gyro can be made do virtually whatever the pilots skill level will ask of it, generally with no protest unlike say a Cessna 172 for example so you can get in a situation that can get real interesting BUT most times, the situation can be avoided by careful piloting.

I know of one fatality that that involved as [I think a student pilot] flying at a very fast speed into thunderstorm type weather. This person needed his backside kicking severely and the accident should not have happened.
Another fatality involved a fellow who hadnt flown for some years, wheeled his gyro out and without ANY refresher training /instruction, proceeded to do ground runs that resulted in his death when the gyro became airborne and landed in an unorthodox manner.This particular fellows gyro" seatbelt was secured at the incorrect attachment points.

A lot of accidents /fatalities can be avoided, how ?? well, by good training, the pilot being prepared to humble themselves to fully learn and learn and to also, take time to gather experience at all the basic stuff before trying something harder, in other words, working your way into maneuvers, taking your time, do not hurry. Be prepared to take the time and go call into some of the high time gyro pilots and ask them questions, be prepared to go to the Nationals and sit around the camp fire and listen and learn from some of the very experienced pilots eg, Jacko, Tim, Birdy etc etc.
Most important is to have a gyro that is well built, safe and has been built by a reputable builder, make sure the builder used the correct grade bolts, that nothing has been compromised, that the gyro meets all the revelavant specys and has been inspected and test flown by a suitably qualified person. There is a list of TA's in the gyro news. If you are thinking of buying a gyro, get it checked out before hand, there are some gyros out there that have never been inspected, been sitting in a shed for yonks, subject to corrosion etc etc, get it checked before buying and flying.

Some accidents are caused by pilot error, probably could say most and be right. I re call another fatality that could have been avoided very easily.

A bit of good cheap free advice is, never stop flying the gyro till EVERYTHING has come to a complete stop. Anyone who doesnt make this simple rule their Number 1 rule, risks an accident. This is unlike a FW that basically, once the nose wheel has touched down, its all over, not so with a gyro !!

Flying gyros is one of the greatest thrills you can experience and you too can do it safely.

__________________
Brian Reid
Pooncarie
NSW

gbw

Quote from: Mitch on Today at 04:27:55 PM

"Russ gets to take his missus flying, that would be great someday if Elise could get over her flying phobia.

Cheers,

Mitch

Mitch tell her there is a spare seat beside me if she ever wishes to taste our passion for the air, and she will love it as you very well know.."

Mr Bones,
This is very true. You cannot be a hero in your home town. Someone else is perceived as a better pilot than your husband.

I have a motorbike and no way will the woman climb on the back. But she happily hopped on the back of a friends Harley. No faith and no taste

Graham