Frantic

I would like to draw out some opinions on the reason why most Gyros today are the 'Pusher' type. I am new to all this, but my reasoning is that a puller would not suffer from PPO which seems to be the major safety concern for most newbies. I know that the traditional 'Pullers' do not look too great, but with modern design and composites, a sleek and aerodynamic shape could be achieved. Am I on the wrong track? I daresay that this topic has been debated at length somewhere or other, but like I say......I'm a Newby (which means I can ask as many stupid questions as I like) :

Aussie_Paul

Hi Frantic, welcome to the world of gyroplanes.

The great point of the "out the fron fantatstict view" is what gyros are all about for me. If I want to be in a Cessna style cabin I would have a fixed wing plane that uses 1/2 the fuel and goes so much faster.

The other two great gyro points that make gyros better than most fixed wing aircraft are that they don't worry about rough weather and transportation is much easier.

PPO is a thing of the past with a correctly set up gyroplane. Unfortunately there are still many gyros, some sold by manufacturers, that are PPO prone.

Fortunately the info is there to have a correctly set up gyroplane which is no more dangerous and IMHO safer that any other flying machine.

A gyroplane is a piece of machinery and with such you can hurt or kill yourself if you are irrisponsible.

Aussie Paul.

russ

Steady up there "PB"...........what's this about many out there sold by manufacturers that are prone to "PPO"

Sorry mate, have to disagree there. Oz built / certified.............no probs. Maybe, just maybe, overseas there maybe a couple.............definitely not many

With the now knowledge we have, newbies would be alerted to a purchase that was suss.
My experiences......newbie rocks up, asks all the usual questions, you take him for a lap or 2, then he's sold on gyros..........guaranteed
Then over the next whatever time you him get together and info is shared. Part of that info, is alerting to poor design etc etc

In your case.........the firebird will be ultimate flying gyro

__________________
State of origin..........go the maroons

I intend living forever...........so far so good.

Mitch

Frantic,

Welcome.

Any large amount of thrustline offset to C of G relationship is no good. The same is true in having the C of Drag offset from the thrustline. The idea is to get the Centre of Drag and C of G on or about the line of thrust, so that all are coaxial, or nearly so.

Enough/adequate, tail surfaces vertical and horizontal to ensure the gyro weather cocks correctly

Do this and your PIO, PPO worries need not be a concern that distracts you from your training and having fun.

Enjoy the journey.

Cheers

Mitch (another newby)

mceagle

Frantic, the thrust line vector is what matters, not the position of the propeller. Two near identical gyros with identical thrustlines, except one pusher and the other tractor would have identical PPO tendencies. Don't believe the myth that if you pull something it will be more directionally stable than if you push it. There is no perceiveable difference in directional stability in rear wheel drive or front wheel dirve cars.

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Tim McClure

Aussie_Paul

Sheeeez, there you go again Russ, going off half cocked with half read info. I said that there are some, NOT MANY, sold by manufactures, and there are many gyros around the world that can still PPO. Geez.

The rest about the sudent info etc, great. Unfortunately there are still instructors here and around the world that don't instruct correctly, or understand the neccessary info to take newbies down the safest gyro track.

Aussie Paul.

Frantic

mceagle, I disagree with your thinking on this, especially if you use the analogy of front and rear wheel drive cars. They both feel the same until you get into a skid. I can't prove it with maths, but my 40 years in engineering tells my gut that if your propulsion source is in front of your rotor, the rotor cannot overtake the prop and 'unload' (assuming that the power setting doesn't change) . Whereas in a "push ' situation, the propulsion source is acting against the rotor when the nose of the gyro is dropped and effectively 'power unloads' the rotor. Like I say, this is just my gut feeling, I'm not an Aeronautical Engineer.

mceagle

Gidday Frantic, as long as the wheels maintain traction, there should be no difference in handling qualities. The thrust line is always parallel to the direction of travel. In a slide there are far too many more variables to consider. When the car is in a slide the thrust line is not always parallel to the direction of travel and that can create a difference in handling between front and rear wheel drive ( the front wheel drive can vary the angle of the thrust line whereas the rear wheel drive can not.
In a gyro, whether front or rear prop, the angle of the thrust line cannot change, and is always parallel to the keel, and acts on the C of G of the Gyro.

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Tim McClure

Sky Gazer

You got to be kidding

How many rear wheel drive vehicles do you see in the rally events WRC-NONE they are all small front wheel drive because they pull themselves into, through and out of corners rather than being pushed through them.

Peter

russ

How many "F1" cars you see front wheel drive [ now......... they do, go a tad quick ]

How many speedway cars you see front wheel drive.......[ another quickie round corners ]

One argument i heard for rally cars bein front wheel drive was they can boot in the power, while pullin on rear wheel brakes...

Now ............i think the rally guys/ cars, are full time 4WD cars.....most of em anyway

Be interesting to hear the pros and cons for each style drive

__________________
State of origin..........go the maroons

I intend living forever...........so far so good.