How to Get a Gyro Into the Air

[GyRoss]

Ok
Now that I have got your attention, I need your help.
What I want to do in this topic is get some of you to describe in detail how you get your gyro airbourne.
Why? To get some information out there, and to give students and others a feel for different characteristics for different types of gyros.
What I'm lookng to demonstrate is the different techniques used for different machines.

Give some details as to your machine configuration, engine /redrive type, prerotator type, type of blades etc.

Describe what you do from the moment you start the engine till your in the air.

Have fun

Gyross

[russ]

The best information you can get "out there" is....................go find an instructor

training......... is theory and hands on experiences.

30 yrs ago, we ALL read "the books", and hopped into our single seaters to put the "theory" into practice.......mate we was coming unstuck left right and centre.

Thank christ for twin seaters we now got............ :clap:

[GyRoss]

I'll have a go to get things started

Gyro: NEWO, Two Seater, Rotax 618, hydraulic prerotator, Goodwin Rotors

Do standard preflight.
Now even before we get in, need to get a look at the wind direction and also consider the prop blast. Position the machine so it is nose into the wind, not going to damage other aircraft or hangars with prop blast, and the last thing is aim it at something a long way away or something very soft. Why? Just consider what will happen if it starts and goes to full thottle.( thats an experience you won't ever forget)
Get myself and student /passenger in and bucked up and headsets on. At this point its good to get an idear how heavy your passenger is.
I have a set of prestart checks ABCFITS
All clear
Brake set
Controls free
Fuel sufficient
Instruments ok and set
Throttle set for start
Secure all harness and loose objects
Next its Clear Prop and get the engine going
Need to do a warm up and check water temps and egts are commimg up
Next the warm up Next Checks are SMIRFSTAB
Switches are set
Mag checks, check both ignitions
Instruments are OK , Alt
Radio, radio check
Fuel sufficient
Secure, loose objects and hatches helments harness
Throttle , ok and not stuck
All clear , pre taxi no aircraft moving around in front
Brake, now time to realease the brake
I know some of these checks are repeated but better safe than you know
Now Ready to taxi and prerotate
This machine has a hydraulic prerotator, so this is an interesting sequence (an extra hand would be useful)
Hold the brake on, stick fully forward
RPM to 3000
Gently squeeze the prerotator handle, make sure engine rpm does not drop below 2800
As Rotor rmp increases, gradually bring back the stick
Now start to increase the engine rpm slowly to 3500, while squeezing the prerotator handle all the way in
As rotor rpm gets to about 60 , its time to start moving
Stick fully back, engine approx 3000, prerotator still fully engaged , start to roll forward, radio call if you have a spare finger
At about 80 rpm release the prerotator
Now I bring up the blades as per normal
Gradually feed in more air as the blades come up to speed.
Before the take off roll commences I do a ABCFITS check as per above
Now the take off roll
Gradually feeding in more throttle as rotor speed increases
As I feed in more power I need to maintain right rudder pressure, its got a tall tail so its just rudder pressure, not extra rudder , just pressure.
At approx 180 rotor rpm the nose will want to lift, so at this point , gently forward on the stick to keep her balancing on the mains. So continue to feed in the power gently untill we get full power.
Two important checks DO I HAVE FULL ENGINE RPM 6800
DO I HAVE A WORKING AIR SPEED INDICATOR
If both these are OK we are Ok for take off
Need to now keep balancing on the mains and let the airspeed build to 40 knots
At 40 knots it will just fly off on its own. Dont let it off before 40 knots
Now this is an important time to remember how heavy the person is who is sitting next to you.
This is a side by side two seater so it is now going to tilt to the heavy side unless you compensate with a small amount of stick movement
So the machine is now in the air and doing 40 knots. Its not over yet. We have two people being lifted by a Rotax 618. So its not an easy task. Now need to keep the machine at about 5 feet and gently lower the nose and allow the airspeed to build. This takes only a few seconds and at 50 knots you are ready to climb out , so at this point ,gently back on the stick to maintain 50 knots in climb.

So you can see from this sequence I use a number of check lists, some are specific to this particular aircraft.
Your instructor should help you to develop a set of suitable checks for you machine.

The important thing in all of this is to look at the parts of this sequence common to all types of gyros and what is going to be specific to your machine.

Disclaimer. This is not a teach yourself to fly document, BUT a tequnique and numbers for a specific gyroplane.

Gyross

[niquenaque]

Well Ross,

I don't know about everyone else, but at the moment for me it is a case of throwing about $1000 Jack Allen's way, then I can get airbourne.

I did a post for dean [disco1] about a month back - have a look there if you wish.

Cheers,

Nick.

[Aussie_Paul]

Ok Ross, this is what I have used.

Now that the attachment seems to be working, I have deleted the text here.

Disclaimer. This is not a teach yourself to fly document, BUT a tequnique and numbers for a specific gyroplane.

Aussie Paul. :wave:

[Sonnyj]

Well Blokes
From what I see and read here, this is a very good idea.
No I don't suggest that anyone just read this info and run out and start tryin to fly.
But a I can see where it will help a potential student in chooseing an instructor, and give at least some sence of what their about to undertake.

I think you should add to your post's that "if you choose to use this info to train your self, you do so at your own risk." Just like the disclaimers in the casting sites I visit.

Thanx and Cheers
Sonny

[GyRoss]

This thread is not intended as a teach yourself to fly thread.
The aim is to demonstrate that there are various techniques required to get different types of machines into
the air. The routine listed above is different to a machine with an electric prerotator and also very different to hand
starting your blades.
Your instructor will show you how to get his particular two seater into the air and should also guide you on how to
get your single seater going.
The check lists I use I have derived, and I also help my students to get checklists set up for their machines.


Anyone else game to have a go.

Gyross

[Bob]

Good luck GyRoss !
I commend your attempt but, think its futial... these people are so afrade that what they sujest may be used against them in a court of law or be the downfall of some one trying to teach themselves to fly that I seriously doubt you'll get much of a responce.... its too bad too ! its a fasinateing subject and one that would teach many people many things old and new alike.
...
I would add to your list of what to do to get your gyro in the air except I have never had a sustained flight in my gyro as of yet.
...
I will add that I Attempt to fly in this fashon....
lets asume the gyro was double checked and all the important stuff done and its Just you and the machine and the landing strip on a windless day.
... I start off by makeing at least 4 or 5 seat runs down the run way...
first trip down the run way, with the rotors barely turning...
I am checking the steering and engine responce , if everything checks out I will start spinning rhe rotor for the trip back... to get it on the tail wheel but no further... checking out the rudder sesponce and the alignment when the front wheel comes down from the tail wheel makeing sure it will not Jurk the craft to one side or the other... the next pass is trying to ballance on the mains something i have yet to accomplish very well,
it is eather Up or down , there is no in between.... but I may have found why this last winter so we shall see next trip out...
after about 3 passes of ballanceing on the mains or keeping it on the edge of it... and IF and only IF it feels right , i may attempt a hop or two...
getting it on the mains and slowly increasing the throttle while keeping the gyro going stright till the wheels leave the ground... and back out slowly out of the throttle... this gives a decent hop and is usually fairly easy to control everything....
once the craft leaves the ground is when I start backing out because it takes a few minutes for it to slow back down and come back to earth.
...
I have done many Hops this way and I have also layed it over 2 times now
all it takes is a slight gust of wind or getting behind what is going on with the craft and it only takes a split second to wind up on the side...
....
as You are leaving the ground or getting speed up to do so ...I say "fly the stick !" ... you better compensate or your in a world of hurt !
there is Milli-seconds of reaction time needed to keep the gyro up right.
and if your not top notch ... don't even get in the seat that day !
....
thats how I seez it..
Bob.......

[Yoshi]

Hi Bob


I would add to your list of what to do to get your gyro in the air except I have never had a sustained flight in my gyro as of yet.
I have done many Hops this way and I have also layed it over 2 times now.
All it takes is a slight gust of wind or getting behind what is going on with the craft and it only takes a split second to wind up on the side...
....



Is it just me or is someone trying to tell you something, but I guess I have to admire your persisitance.

Cheers

Darren

[gyrobob]

bob never fly the stick - fly your rotors - oh SH|T :yikes: here we go - now I'm going to end up in court


bob you gotta be on that mountain brew mate :beer: - how bout the recipe :dizzy:

[Birdy2]

Anyone else game to have a go.
Fill er up n f%$# off. :evil_laugh:
[ as you can see, im not an instructers ahole :google:]

I commend your attempt but, think its futial...
Duno bout the court part of it, but i dont think this sorta info should be up here, otherwise we'll end up witha lot more 'Bobs' getn bout. ::)

bob never fly the stick - fly your rotors - oh SH|T
??????

[BeefBear]

Yep, I think you are dead right there Birdy. There's a lot wantabe Bob's out there and we may have just given them enough info to encourage them to set about killing themselves.

Ted

[disco]

Guys, i think and hope that you are over worried about the ending up in court thing. I'm only learning and don't read stuff here and then think i know what i'm doing from that.

You should be able to say what ever you like here. Ross has started the thread and it could be helpful for people.

If i was a gyro pilot and wrote about how i can fly my gyro upside down if i put the rotors on upside down, (hmm....) , or some crap like that. i don't think i would have to worry bout getting sued.

This is the internet-the worlds biggest bullshit hole ever.

[russ]

Deano...........i read just the other week, some poor bugger was successfully sued for defamation, due to a comment he made on the net.

sorry, but it's true............. it'll just be a short time that if you look at some dickhead, he will sue ya for emotional assault.............

Then there was this guy in oz somewhere, that said sumin like cats were for shooting, or sumin like that, this he said on some chat room thingo................mate .........he got SUED

What with these bleedin muslims, and these other tossers we got here in oz...........WE is DOOMED

next we'll be paying to go on a bloody beach ............ :Bat1:

[Graeme]

Then there was this guy in oz somewhere, that said sumin like cats were for shooting, or sumin like that, this he said on some chat room thingo................mate .........he got SUED


You meen they have another use, oh yeh, thats right, nearly forgot, crab bait..

[disco]

I believe their handy if you like shit in your bath tub. hehehhe I wouldn't own one my the inlaws do. hahah.

I feel that it would be imposible to get in serious trouble for someone smashing up their machine from listening to you talking to someone else, you didn't even tell them directly.

I guess the world is gone mad because my feeling is obviously not real life.


__________________________________________________ _______________________________
Have you guys hear about first aiders being sued for eg. breaking someones rib when they were saving a life....
I was told my an ambo when i did a first aid course the other day that a first aider had never been sued in australia.

So i wonder if the last couple of posts are old wifes tales too. Hope i don't get busted for deformation to wifes

[Aussie_Paul]

sorry, but it's true............. it'll just be a short time that if you look at some dickhead, he will sue ya for emotional assault.............

I can see why Russ. Mate have you looked in a mirror lately, !! :redface:

Aussie Paul. :wave:

[russ]

Me missis still thinks i'm "her man"..........the "only man"...........that'll do me, just fine.

Even after 20 odd yrs..............she still get's me "hot and bothered" :wave:

BTW..........if ya see the coaster rockin..............don't come knockin :peace:

[GyRoss]

Thanks for that update Russel
Good to see you keeping it on the topic at hand
If you want to share this stuff, start your own thread, I'm sure you'll find a suitable topic name.

Ted
Your valuable contribution to the topic is noted. Just what do you know about flying gyroplanes?
Just how many manuals are there on how to fly a fixed wing aircraft. Are all of these manuals dangerous?

Gyross

[russ]

geez, gyross ...........you wana lighten up, take time to smell the roses, it's casual here, rules etc...nar none of them.
There is the "bar" where we can really get down and dirty if you wish.

Now if anyone gets "off topic" as you seem to object to..........................so what, fair go, it's not a big deal here. the casual too and frowing is part of the banter here, amongst all the banter good info sharing comes about as well.

Go way back through the threads, the theme, the tone, the style, is consistant all through the topics, by most posters

Having now said that, if the members and or the owners here, desire input here to be "strictly" aviation themed, and adhere to the topic on hand, then so be it.

My casual approach to life in general, may well offend some, obviously it does you, but that is the way i am, and you will have to accept that. We are all unique/different in our own ways.............thank christ

[MechFx]

Hi Ross,

i found some writing about this topic in Peter Lovegrove's GYROPLANE MISCELLAVIA, book, volume 5.

I think its available through the ASRA library, otherwise I'll see if I can get permission to scan it and email it to you.

[BeefBear]

Have you guys hear about first aiders being sued for eg. breaking someones rib when they were saving a life....
I was told my an ambo when i did a first aid course the other day that a first aider had never been sued in australia.



As long as you are doing something that is regarded as being in the best interest of the person you are assiting... if you are not, then you are placing yourself in a legal situation. Our instructors have been issueing this advice for the last 3 years. I'm taking there advice as something well intentioned.

[niquenaque]

OK Ross,

I'll put it back on track for you:

G 2066 [when in flying condition]

EA 81 Powered Bensen Derivative - with 2.1:1 redrive and 72 x 44 timber prop, has a horizontal stab as well and is CLT as near as zip.

Do preflights - check fuel, oil, water, bolts, nuts, wires, tyre pressures, etc, structurals for cracks and everything else.
Do nervous wee...
Do preflights again in case you missed something the first time around
Put your PPE on
Sit in the seat and buckle in
Set altimeter to current altitude
Check freedom of movement for rudder, joystick and all other things.
set ignition switches to on, fuel pump on, instruments on
" Clear Prop" & Start engine and note reactions of same - idle usually about 1000 - 1200
Check oil pressures, rate of rise in engine temp, oil pressure wrt revs 80PSI @1200 cold, 75 hot
Allow it to warm up and check responses through warm up process
Feel for undue vibrations and listen for unusual noises - taxi to edge of apron to wind up rotors in safe location
stop and park with nose into wind, stop engine, lock stick in forward position
unbuckle and remove + secure rotor strap, get on seat and pat rotors up by hand
Sit and buckle back in to seat when rotors are about 60 RRPM and release stick lock, gently pull stick back to full back stick - if no wind move off at *walking pace* only and enter run way after lookout - clear, plus announcing intentions [location traffic - G 2066 entering and backtracking runway 27 for take off and circuits - location traffic]; if wind then allow rotors to achieve best RRPM for wind conditions and then move off per no wind situation, backtrack to downwind end of runway with forward relative air speed = walking pace, allow rotor revs to build, allow for braking or like at end of downwind backtrack.
At end of backtrack pull joystick back for brakes and then tilt forward and into turn, round up to point upwind and alllow rotors to regain lost speed by pulling stick gently back to full back position, hold position at side of strip and announce intentions - [location] G 2066 holding runway 27 for intended take off - building rotor speed [location].
When rotor speed is maximised wrt wind, announce [location] traffic - G2066 rolling runway 27 for takeoff and circuits / whatever at altitude [location]
***now the tricky bit for the inexperienced - don't do this without instructions! *** bob.
once the rotor RPM has peaked begin to gently increase the throttle, about 20 RPM / s until the machine starts to move forward [about 1400 ~ 1500 RPM], allow rotors to accelerate, watch to your right to see if blades are tracking properly.
As the rotors accelerate progressively feed in more throttle, about 50 RPM / s increase rate and make sure the rotors follow this increase. [If the machine starts to rock from side to side you're pushing it too fast too soon - push joystick forward and ease off the throttle and start all over again]
The rotors will accelerate slowly at first and then will achieve about 180 RPM within about the first 30 s, at this point the nose will lift and you will have full rudder authority.
Once the nose lifts gently push the stick forward and follow it with a much faster throttle increase - about 200 RPM/s increase rate until full power is reached ~ 5400 RPM, hold the nose down with the joy stick so the front wheel is *just* kissing the ground.
As the speed builds to 38 ~ 40 kts you will lift off in a level attitude position, hold this attitude until speed builds to 55 kts
ease stick back and allow climb out at 50 kts at full throttle until desired flight altitude is reached, then ease the throttle back and nose down until cruise speed and altitude is achieved.

Hope this helps - but don't do it without prior flight instruction by a qualified isntructor.

Cheers,

Nick.

[GyRoss]

Thanks Nick
What I have been trying to demonstrate is that there are different techniques for different machines, and yes individual pilots also vary their techniques to cope with local conditions etc.

If your game, how do the tecniques described above vary from yours???

Gyross