Re: flying photos

[BeefBear]

Mark, I'm coming up to get me some of that there water. Level 4 water restrictions in place. Seriously anti social dudes creeping around booking people even for having a hose attached to a tap.

Ted

[rotor]

It's makes me angry to see the state the country is slipping to!* :anger: everythings on a long slow slide ....

Some places have more than enough water - the rest none. Gadafi did a lot for his country when he piped water to the arrid parts of his country. We could do the same thing I'm sure. Of course, become a business or primary producer and the rules seem to change - you'll get as much as you want and it'll cost you a lot less!! ... and you can have as long a hose as you want too ...

Talk to Sonny - he'd know how to set a bear trap :crazyas:
But look on the bright side of it, if you can still run a hose from your keg your laughin mate* *:cheers:

[BeefBear]

Geoff,

I've thinking about that.... an intravenous drip.... only problem is, the keg would be a dead give away at work.

Ted

[hoody]

It's makes me angry to see the state the country is slipping to! everythings on a long slow slide ....

Some places have more than enough water - the rest none. Gadafi did a lot for his country when he piped water to the arrid parts of his country. We could do the same thing I'm sure. Of course, become a business or primary producer and the rules seem to change - you'll get as much as you want and it'll cost you a lot less!! ... and you can have as long a hose as you want too ...

typical, attitude that will stuff this great nation.

if a grazier wants to build a dam at his great cost to water stock and a lawn thats his perogative!!!

it is still illeagle to dam water for irrigation without permits and paying for it. wankers want to all live in each others pockets and then have the water brought to them!!! south east qld has had water probs for years and still about 200 thousand more victorians are gonna move there in the next couple of years!!!

has anybody bothered to tell them or has councils stoped building aprovals for homes they cant suply water?

our premmier now wants to charge land holders for the privilage to use water that they catch with dams and bores the goverment has had no contribution to the development or maintence of!!!

must be a smart treehuger or suburban parisite that thinks the water out here all flows to the brisbane river and we are theiving there opportunity to water their lawn.
the water here finds its way through the channel country to south australia,water from my neighbor behind me goes to the gulf of carpenteria via the flinders. and just over a bit of a hill towards bones she heads to ayr on the east coast via the burdiken river and dam.

"become a business or primary producer and the rules seem to change"
mabee it is more important to have somthing to eat or gainfull employment ???

"It's makes me angry to see the state the country is slipping to! everythings on a long slow slide ...."
once apone a time people had certain rights that came before anything else, now we do what the over educated idiot minnority think is best even if it guts the very soul of a nation founded on opportunity and essential freedom.

rotor, these comments and instilled beleifs you have, just confirms the feeling of abandonment bussiness and rural australia feel. one day ausie's are gonna wonder why they have no future, no food, no hope for a job, and no automatic right to just exsist.

id love to have a bit of that costal water to grow some steak, why dosent beatie ban lawns and gardens on the coast and pipe me some water???
it would be more like Gadafi, pumping water to arid regeons, hey???

a sick in the guts hoody.

[bones]

Umm narh i'll sit on the fence and watch this one :poke:

[rotor]

Geez ... think I hit a nerve ..... take a bex and hit the farter for a while - no showers, can't have you wasting any of that artesian water now can we - not without paying for it that is* :chuckel:

tree hugger ... what a f#$ken insult!!! suburban parasite ..... where do you get this shit from ???? No ones attacking where you live or what you do are they ??

Tree hugger .... suburban parasite ..... silly cow grower ... country cousin* :crazyas: lets call each other names, must be fun - my kids love it ...

All this because of "become a business or primary producer and the rules seem to change" ... we'll they do don't they ?? A lot of them waste water like it's goin out of fashion, I know I've seen industry around here. Don't tell me you don't think they should conserve water like the rest of us are made to?? You've got enough water not to appreciate it I take it?

And I suppose you feel the countries being managed properly ... the governments doing a great job in handling along with other things our water recourses?? There's enough water that pours over the top end every year to fill every dam twice in this country including yours. So what's wrong with suggesting piping water to areas that need it, no ones trying to pinch your water ...

I agree, most of the water laws and tariffs in this country are just another avenue for revenue - money for nothing. There has to be a happy medium on how much you can take out of a water course though - there has to be enough for everyone, or it's just bad luck if your on the end of the line. You dam runoff on your property and you have to pay for it? I didn't know that. So how much do you pay for the paddock dam per megalitre?


id love to have a bit of that costal water to grow some steak, why dosent beatie ban lawns and gardens on the coast and pipe me some water???

Geez ... I dont want your water hoody ... but now you want mine? I just want something done with the water that flows out the top end every year!


if a grazier wants to build a dam at his great cost to water stock and a lawn thats his perogative!!!

I agree whole heartedly* ... where did I say I didn't? Thats your business, nothin to do with me.

Maybe I should have been more specific when I mentioned primary producers. Not all waste water. How many cow growers do you see irrigating thousands of acres of cotton and other types of crops in arid areas?

I could go on, but enough crap ....

Hoody, I'd much prefer to exchange posts that are productive and informative instead of insulting each other with bullshit. I appologise if I offended you initially, I didn't go out of my way to, just stated my beliefs without insult about a country that seems to be on the downhill slide.

rotor

f#$ken tree hugger ... the only way that'll happen is if I wrap my rotors around one!!!

[BeefBear]

A bit off topic this has gone... Our wise council has decided to reutilise the waste water (sewage by another name), by recyling it for inclusion with the normal drinking water. Mind you it went down like a lead balloon, but the council being a pig headed as it is, is going to continue down this track. Years back they were skyting about with the water supplies we have now we can last 4 -5 years without rain. They had obviously not factored in the growth of Toowoomba and surrounding shires, nor the fact that Toowoomba Water is onsold to the surrounding shires. Here in Highfields we currently stand at around 7,000 population. Forecasts predict that by 2015 we will have a population of 35,000. Where's the water going to come from..... hopefully not by drinking refined sewage.

Ted

[BeefBear]

BTW.. in responce to Geoff comments about cotton growers wasting water. Can't agree with you there. We have been paying for water for years. The meters are read by government staff annually, the government knows what pumping capacity and storage facilities we have. AND because of increaseing pressures on availability we ( the cotton industry) are becoming more efficent with our useage and the retention of our runoff water. We use neutron probes to determine when and how much water to apply to maximise the growth

There's a rule of thumb that 1 megalitre of water will produce 1 bale of cotton, but the real measure is how many dollars are created from the prodution of that one bale. When you think of all the industries that are supported by cotton either directly or indirectly, then that one megalitre of water has tremendous value to the community as a whole. So lets have no more talk about cotton growers as wasters of water. Its simply not true.

In the early 70's, yes the industry didn't have a clue, but these days it a whole new ball game. If you think governments don't believe that cotton growers are a cash cow, try visualising this. In NSW they were contemplating applying a tax for rain that allegdly fell on your farm, on the basis that the State owned the water. As all good public servants do, they worked out a means test by averaging the rain fall across the district as the basis for formulating the amount of tax to be applied. This is an example of a state government gone bad econimically and desperately trying to find some revenue.

[Birdy2]

Sorry to be one o the ones to hijack your pix thread Mark, but while this subject is roar'n, I'm guna throw my 2 bobs worth in, and its simple.

If you can probuce any product that dosn't require guvment hand outs for survival, then go your hardest.

If you need guvment[ taxpayers] money to stay afloat, then you should be try'n sumthn else. Why should every other Ozy support you just coz you can't make a liven outa sumthn that don't pay its way??[same as bludgers, they couldn't do it if we didn't pay um to sit on their asses an do nuthn.]

[bones]

Rotor, hoody, Birdy, and any others dont hold back on my behalf, the only reason i put this thread on was to give people something to talk about, i dont give a sh*t what happens to the thread this is its purpose :blahblah:, but in the end we'll all just :cheers:

[hoody]

a shame every irigated crop bears the resembelance of those from yesteryear. every last drop of water is conserved. environmentalists first demanded it to protect our waterways from fertiliser and pesticides but soon it was self imposed by the sheer value of the water, 10 years ago water got so dear the profit margin equaled the flood harvesting value![ i.e. the product of pumps installed high on the bank to utilise the luck of a second or third flood in a year as the first one is for the river. very strict rules apply but is much cheeper and has separate meters and price]

not one drop that irigates a crop by man or rain is wasted. draines are designed to handel a freshly irigated crop receiving a downpoor. less water at more optimal times has reduced wastage again with the help of probes, and when viable, night irrigation has less evaporation.

equaly a shame gyro's cant shake a similar biased stigmar from those of the past. narrow mindedness afects us all and there are a lot of nerves to touch in rural australia as there are in those who share a love for gyro's, hey?

people who tried to fly, make a living, or anything else in the past should not be judged by todays knowledge. no matter how wrong by todays standards our forefathers wernt evil or bad, just ill informed.

hind sight = lookin/talkin out your arse

p.s. there has been a lot of talk about utilising rivers up here but usualy for the development of agriculture and industry but im not sure you understand the costs involved in pumpin water such a long way.

hoody, cowboy suporter through and through. the big screen is available bones, if you want to come out to watch the game.

[rotor]

Below is an extract from an article by Professor Derek Eamus - director of the Institute for Water and Environmental Resource Management, University of Technology.
Full article can be found here

" The Australian Bureau of Statistics tell us that of all the water used in Australia, 70 per cent is used in the agriculture industry, 14 per cent is used in other industries and 8 per cent is used by the domestic market.

The gross domestic product of Australia was $670,030 million for 2000-01. Of this, services accounted for 72 per cent, industry (including mining) accounted for 26 per cent and agriculture accounted for only 3 per cent.

70 per cent of our water use supports a sector that contributes about 3 per cent to Australia's GDP. Meanwhile, we impose water use restrictions on the largest single group of people in Australia (the urban population) that uses the smallest percentage of water."

Let us look at the return on the investment of this resource. A recent hefty CSIRO report shows that to generate $1 of output from the rice industry, more than 7000 litres of water are required. Rice is not alone, though. It is just the worst. For the sugar cane industry, more than 1200 litres of water are needed and for seed cotton, 1600 litres of water are needed for every single dollar produced.

So Ted, better throw that hose away lest you be branded a water whore!!

[BeefBear]

Geoff, I agree with the figures supplied for the rice industry, however I believe that cotton was mentioned in an earlier debate. Most of the fundamental argument being promoted by enviornmentalists against cotton here in Queensland is based on the experiences of the Victorian rice growing areas. The two crops are different, their water needs are different, and the salinity outcomes will be hugely different.

As to the point raised about the contribution to Australia's GDP. Reports such as the one you used to quote from often fail to understand how dollars being generated by agriculture don't always end being used to calculate the GDP on an industry. Cotton has this ability to sustain a multitude of support industries which turn filter down through subsequent industries. Look at cotton towns and ask them would they like to turn off the water to cotton growers. They'd shoot you if you tried.

Here’s a couple of facts that you might like to comtemplate


More than 90% of Australian cotton is grown under irrigation.

• Cotton growers are committed to economic and environmental sustainability and have improved their water use efficiency by over 11% since 1999.

• Improved water use efficiency in irrigated cotton has resulted in estimated water savings of 67,885 megalitres a year, reducing deep drainage as water applications are matched to a cotton plant’s water demand.
(Source: Cotton CRC, 2004)

• Total water extracted in the Murray-Darling Basin in 2001/02 was 7,495,000 Megalitres (ML). Valleys in which cotton is grown used 1,328,000 ML, (17.8%), including extractions for town water and other crops. (Source: Murray-Darling Basin Commission, 2004)

• Total water extraction for irrigation in the Murray-Darling Basin is 10 million ML on average.

• Cotton’s average irrigation requirement is 5.8 megalitres per hectare (ML/ha). This compares to rice (10.9 ML/ha), fruit (10.8 ML/ha), pasture (6.1 ML/ha) and grapevines (9.3 ML/ha). (Source: CSIRO Sustainable Ecosystems, 2001)

• Cotton’s dollar return per megalitre of water is higher than sugar, rice, livestock and pasture explaining why many farmers with a water allocation choose to grow cotton. (Source: ABS Water Account, 2001)

• Australia’s crop water use efficiency averaged 2.5 kilograms of cotton lint per hectare for each millimetre of evapotranspiration (kg/ha/mm). This compares to California (2 kg/ha/mm) and developing countries (0.3-1.3 kg/ha/mm). (Source: Cotton CRC/CSIRO, 2003)

• Australian cotton growers produce more cotton from every megalitre of water (240kg) than most other countries, due to good soil types, good management and high yielding varieties.

• 90% of the cotton industry is situated in the catchments of the Darling River. Cotton’s impact on the water flow of the Murray River is minimal as the Darling River contributes 17% of the total Murray-Darling system flow. (Source: Murray Darling Basin Commission, 1997)

• In NSW, only 22% of the total average annual surface water is extracted for consumption for all uses – including drinking water, agriculture and industry.

• Cotton growers, like all irrigators, can only access water with a license and by following a strict set of rules set down by State Governments.

• Water is regulated and managed by state government agencies through the allocation of water licences, management of dams and weirs, and advising when and how much water can be accessed.

• Farmers pay a lot of money to access and use water for their crops therefore every drop is precious and must be put to its most productive use.

• Cotton growers pay a license fee to access water. The vast majority of cotton growers have to meet the full cost of pumping water to their farms, for the infrastructure used to distribute to their fields and for storage, including evaporative losses.

• On a dollar per megalitre basis cotton production is the best economic return for general security irrigation water used for broad acre cropping.

• Nearly all cotton farms are designed with return water systems that re-use water and capture the first flush of storm run-off from the farm. This ensures no precious water is lost and no water that may contain chemicals re-enters river systems.

• Nearly all cotton in Australia is grown in the Darling River catchment where the water use requirement occurs during summer in line with rainfall patterns and resulting natural river flows. Most cotton is grown in line with seasonal rainfall patterns thereby reducing the demand for irrigated water. In the Murray River catchment, water use requirements for many other crops are not in line with natural flows.

• Cotton researchers are constantly investigating innovations and improvements in technology, management systems and new varieties in an effort to reduce water use and further improve the efficiencies of present systems.

• Water use is currently reduced by: improved cultivation with fallows to store rainfall and improve soil conditions that in turn improve water availability to the cotton root system; the use of on-farm storage and water recycling; and irrigation scheduling methods that conserve water.

• Cotton is grown on soils that are extremely efficient for flood irrigation. They are self-mulching clays that can store large quantities of natural rainfall and when furrow irrigated, they swell and seal as they reach field capacity.

As a result, up to 85% of the water is used by the crop.

• Scheduled irrigations ensure water is applied only when plants are most in need,
resulting in maximum water use efficiency.

• Fields are laser levelled to achieve efficient cotton plant water use.

• The Murray-Darling Basin’s yearly salinity averages, taken at Morgan, are at pre-World War Two levels after a steady decline since the drought induced peak of 1982 (Source: Institute of Public Affairs, 2004).

Source: www.cottonaustralia.com.au/factSheets/resources/water.pdf

[hoody]

rotor does this meen primary production is the most important???
70 %, how eficient humans are becoming being able to harvest enough water for recreation as well as survival.

or does it meen we need to eat, like to work and generaly dont need to mow/wash cars ?

or
14% of water is used to provide income to feed those who arent already earning in primary industry to be able to aford the food and fibre that 70% of the water goes into producing and ther is still 8% left over for domestic use after it is filtered, treated and pumped to a hight to supply pressure.

70+14+8=92% where does the other 8% go???

p.s. no one i know can live on ore, service and lawn clippings.

[hoody]

couldn't the water fight be taken to the bar?

i know a pub that might be suitable, hows cracow sound??? :eyebrow:

hoody

[rotor]

Ted, I don't have a problem with cotton growing, cows being farmed under hoodies watchful eye or any other sort of farming ..... what I was pointing out was that water management was like every other thing in this country ... going downhill. As an example I just happened to point out that we dont have enough water and there was the possibility of getting it from another means. I accept your argument that the cotton industry as well as other industries are saving water through improved methods and education, but that doesn't alter the fact that the urban population still only use a low percentage of the water out there yet they're the first to be jumped on, as you pointed out in a round about way initially.

PS Those facts and figures were gathered from the Cotton Industry. As an organisation I'd trust them as much as the Government and or any other organisation (so I guess that also must include the Bureau of Statistics) when it comes to tellin the truth (or holding back) about anything.