This from the Yank forum posted by Ozzie.

[Mitch]

MT03 Accident? - Rotary Wing Forum (http://www.rotaryforum.com/forum/showthread.php?p=211884#post211884)

He thinks that a female passenger in a MT03 acciden was burned.

Hope he is not talking about here in Oz.

Mitch

[rotor]

Mitch, a reply to your post on the Rotary Wing Forum explains that it more than likely was a recent accident in South Africa where an MT-03 crashed and burned. A sad incident where-ever it was and I wish both the casualties well. Thank God it wasn't Welli!


rotor

[Mitch]

Thanks Rotor.

Very uncomfortable night. Glad to hear it was not Welli.

Sad news nevertheless.

Mitch.

[Mitch]

Ozzie, I think the accident to which you are referring to is the one which occurred at Mossel Bay, South Africa on 27th December. Both the pilot and the female passenger received burn injuries and were transferred to hospital via air ambulance. I wish them both a speedy recovery.

Report from the SA Microlighters forum ( www.microlighters.co.za (http://www.microlighters.co.za/)) :

Quote:
Hi Everyone
On Friday the day after the Gyro accident on Mosselbay airfield, I went with the investigating Officers from CAA to the accident site. The Gyro was a MTO3 and only a part of the rudder came out of the fire
According to an eye whiteness the pilot came in for a landing and it appear that the gyro balloon a bit after it slightly drift to the side, the one wheel made first contact with the runway and than the gyro start to goose -wobble, ending in the rotor hit the ground, the pylon broke off where it was attached to the boom and with the rotor not be able to absorb the impact it appear that the gyro caught fire after the body and fuel tank hit the runway
Apparently the pilot got out, but the passenger could not loosen her safety belt, it seems that the pilot went back to help the passenger getting out of her safety belt
The final report will be released soon by CAA .
I really wish them a speedy recover

After seen so many accidents I want to throw a stone in the bush by saying the following

1) No plastic safety belt buckles to be allowed on Microlights or Gyro's
2) A small working fire extinguisher on Microlights and Gyros
3) 3rd party insurance compulsory
4) A pylon side g test specification on all gyro’s
_________________
Louis van Wyk


It may be worth mentioning that according to another gyro pilot who watched his departure, the pilot had apparently experienced a fuel leak problem with his gascolator prior to taking off. It is unclear if this had anything whatsoever to do with the cause of the accident, and I mention it only as something for MT-03 owners to check for peace of mind.
__________________
David Lehr - Cape Town, South Africa
Magni M16

[Wellie]

I'm glad it wasn't me too!!!

And of course we wish the occupants a speedy recovery.

Too many fires in Gyros!!! What can be done about it?

Is it only in 2 seaters?

[rotor]

Unfortunately where there's fuel there's fire .....

No fuel spill no fire ....

[Dewie]

I'm glad it wasn't me too!!!

And of course we wish the occupants a speedy recovery.

Too many fires in Gyros!!! What can be done about it?

Is it only in 2 seaters?

I second that:(

[richo]

Interesting comments regarding fire extinguishers on the Yank forum. Seems that Halon gas has magical qualities. See fire extinguishers aircraft spruce

[richo]

Ooops! I see Halon is prohibited in Oz. What is the best alternative when trapped in a fireball? Not that you usually have time to re-act.

[Gyrodes]

The usall thing here "anything that could save a life gets baned so the greenies are pleased" hole in the ozone layer stuff I bet. Des Garvin:anger:

[Mitch]

Years ago when I worked for an International Hotel chain, we had to wear BA (Breathing Apparatus) Equipment, when entering the main computer rooms if the halon got dumped. Halon was the prefferred agent as it left no residual on or damage to the electrical equipment in there.
Not good stuff to be breathing.

Mitch

[Echo 2]

Fitted this under the front seat yesterday - $22

Echo

[Mitch]

Good move!:)

Echo I have the 1 kg ABE version sitting on my kitchen bench, well back from the cooker.;)

Mitch.

[Fencing Wire]

The usall thing here "anything that could save a life gets baned so the greenies are pleased" hole in the ozone layer stuff I bet. Des Garvin:anger:

:D:D:D:D

[richo]

The advantage of using Halon appears to be that it is attracted to fire.

In our open air type application it would be ideal. In any case probably 99/100 times a fire extinguisher is never used. Most times a gyro's fuel tank is ruptured and explodes in a fireball - and if you're sitting on it - good night nurse. How lucky was Albert Gobius and his student to survive their crash a couple of years ago? There was nothing left of the gyro.

[Mitch]

Hey Richo,

I'm not so sure? Halon was used extensively in computer control rooms in-house throughout ther Sheraton Hotel chain. I have a little bit of experience with it. I believe in an out doors situation, with a little breeze, (most of us fly in 10-25 knots) the halon will very quickly be moved on and allow a re-ignition.

Like I say not so sure.

Mitch.

[Gyrodes]

In Albert's case the fuel tanks were mounted behind the seat, Two black 20 litre plastic heavy walled jerry cans.
With a premantly live starter cable running up the mast to the prerotor. For what my coment is worth, when that machine rolled over and the mast broke there was a 95% chance that this struck an arc when contacting the frame started the resaluting fire.
:Bat1: THIS WAS THE REASON THAT I MADE THE RECOMENDATION THAT ALL ELECTRIC PRE ROTORS HAVE A SOLINOID FITTED CLOSE TO THE BATTERY. :anger:

Sorry folks I will keep on these simple saftey options at every opertunity doing my bit to increase our flying safely options.
Albert taught me what I know in flying.
Des Garvin:cheers:

[dg2829]

I work in IT, the main reason for halon was the lack of residual powder ETC, ignoring the obvious nasty side effect on people. However in an open air situation is pretty well useless, it needs to in a enclosed space, apart from the illegal aspect, apart from the big Jets Halon is pretty well illegal nowadays.

Most computer room and data centres have had it removed and replaced with other options that are now available.

For our use the $20.00 to $22.00 1KG BE dry powder fire extinguishers will do the job nicely. They have the big advantage that they smother the fire even if they do make a bit of a mess. They do work in some wind the "A" denotes a wood/paper or similar type of fire for our use "BE" is OK because like a car the requirements are much the same.

A penalty of 2KG gross approx is not a big ask, if you have it with you what can it hurt. If you do not have it then you may never get the chance to find out if it could have helped either you or someone else at some stage in the future. :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

It's a good idea to have one at least. I carry 2 BE units in my car after all it's cheap insurance really. While I may never use them on my car I may save one else life with them one day.

Halon Properties, and why they are not used any more

Halon will decompose when exposed to a flame or hot surface.
The major decomposition products for Halon 1301 are: Hydroflouric (HF) and hydrobromic (HBr) acids, and bromine.

The main decomposition products of Halon 1211 are the same three substances, plus hydrochloric acid (HCl) and chlorine.


General Information about Halon

A halogenated compound is one that contains one or more atoms of fluorine, chlorine, bromine or iodine. Generally, the presence of fluorine in the compound increases its inertness and stability; the presence of other halogens, particularly bromine, increases the fire extinguishing effectiveness of the compound. Although a very large number of halogenated compounds exist some of which are: Halon 1211, bromochlorodifluoromethane, CBrClF2 (usually found in portable extinguishers) Halon 1301, bromotrifluoromethane, CBrF3 (usually found in fixed extinguishing systems)
Generally, Halon is a colorless, odorless gas with a density approximately five times that of air.
It is non-corrosive, non-reactive with water, and stable up to 900 degrees F.
The mechanism by which Halon extinguishes fires is not thoroughly known.

It appears to be a physiochemical inhibition of the combustion reaction in that it breaks the chain reaction of the combustion process. The discharge of Halon to extinguish a fire may create a hazard to personnel from the Halon itself and from the products of decomposition.

Exposure to the natural agent is generally of less concern than is exposure to the decomposition products.

However, unnecessary exposure of personnel to either the natural agent or to the decomposition products should be avoided.

Toxic properties of Halon: toxicity is very low; Halon is not considered a carcinogen or cancer-suspect agent.

Since it is heavier than air, it could, however, cause suffocation by reducing the availability of oxygen. Inhalation at concentrations between 4 and 10 percent can cause mild CNS effects such as dizziness, impaired coordination, ringing in the ears, and tingling in the extremities. These types of CNS effects are completely reversible upon removal from exposure.

Decomposition products of Halon: the main byproducts include: halogen acids (HF, HBr, HCl) and free halogens (Br2, F2, Cl2), and possibly small amounts of phosgene (COCl2) or other carbonyl halides (COF2, COBr2). The decomposition products have a sharp, acrid odor, even in minute concentrations of only a few parts per million. The amount of decomposition products will depend on the size of the fire, the concentration of halon, length of time the agent is in contact with the flame or heated surface, and the volume of the room.

Source: National Fire Protection Association, NFPA 12A

I think these are pretty good reasons for not using it, what say others about this.

[Mitch]

G'Day David,

Better than MythBusters and then some.:D

I see we are agreed. Let the Yanks play with the Halon. There are safer and more efficient products about as previously suggested.;)

Mitch.

[dg2829]

G'Day David,

Better than MythBusters and then some.:D

I see we are agreed. Let the Yanks play with the Halon. There are safer and more efficient products about as previously suggested.;)

Mitch.


Yep............:D :D

[niquenaque]

Well... a topic I know a little about for once.

My understanding of it was that aircraft were permitted the use of Halon fire extinguishers. This may have changed as there are alternatives to Halon these days such as NAFS3, inergen and pyrogen. These all kill fires, but to do it they need a sealed space to work in - such that if we do an installation we have to pressure test the room to make sure the gas does not escape within a ten minute time frame, so there goes the use in an open field situation, it may work, but you have to use alot to make it do so.

The use on aircraft is most usually commercial jet liners and APTL driven air craft with use in cabin spaces and engine bays that can be closed off to atmosphere.

For our purposes we would be better off with such things as shut off solenoids, fuel switches, mesh filled tanks that do not permit the spillage of large uncontrolled volumes of fuel and the like, and tanks that will not rupture by virtue of such fixtures and fillings, along with bloody careful piloting. An ABE extinguisher is a reasonable choice - if you are considering have a look at the wind effect labelling on them, CO2 is useless, Halons not much better.

I'll dig up some guff on this and post it later..

cheers,

Nick.

[dg2829]

Ah, ha !! :D

niquenaque (http://www.rotorcraft.com.au/members/niquenaque.html), thats sort of what I said, not in that way the main thing that differs between our info is that I said BE instead of ABE "A" being for fires that can be put out with water, the other stuff like shutoff's etc, like you I agree.

It can't hurt to carry fire extinguisher as well but it is easier to get a "BE" unit they do work in open environments provided you are not trying to use them in gale winds.

The Halon bit I left out the details about computer rooms and thanks I could not think of the other main gas now used as they like you said require an enclosed space etc, we looked at "inergen" (supposed to be people friendly) for our our computer room and a couple of others a while back, in the end for ours and another computer room we did, we opted for "pyrogen" partly because of the price and partly because it is much easier to install and a bunch of other reasons.
We also installed suitable air extraction to remove the "pyrogen" if it does go off, because it is actually an ultra fine powder. (unsuitable for open spaces, too fine)

As you know "pyrogen" takes sometime to settle out of the air, fortunately. This makes it easy to use air extraction, provided it's done shortly after it has gone off and a real pain to cleanup if left to settle out of the air. :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

The resultant powder can do nasty things to computer equipment under various circumstances as well if left. :blahblah: :blahblah: :blahblah:

Wel thats my extra 50cents worth added to the subject....... :D