Unusual stats

[Echo 2]

June edition of Pacific Flyer has an artical by Willie ewig about his big trip.
In the first paragraph he states that "gyros have very bad reputation due to lack of proper training & 99% of all gyros are homebuilt using converted car engines . "

I am curious as to where this figure of 99% came from . "Converted car engines" - I guess is a reference to Subarus ( originally an aircraft engine converted to cars ).

So , reading between the lines ,any one that provides training in anything bar a German built ,Rotax powered machine is adding to gyros "bad reputation ? :confused:

Echo

[Brian]

I thinks Willi needs to do a little more research. :redface: :redface:

He obviously hasn't heard of Rosco & Tim and the number of aircraft they have in the air.

Is he saying that he, [Willi] is the only proper instructor ?

There is no doubt that the Magni /ELA /MT are very good, well built, safe gyros but they are way too expensive for what they are.

[niquenaque]

Eric,

Does Willi go on to say that things have changed??

Cheers,

Nick.

[maulonir]

It could be construed that willi is trying to boost his buisness by bagging machines that he doesn't pedal, weather this is intentional or not I don't know. Not good for the overall gyro movement though as it sends the message that unless you can afford a factory built rotax powered machine then you are taking your life into your own hands which couldn't be further from the truth and in the long term will mean less people fly gyro's and less of a future market for gyro manufactures and agents. One thing that i have learnt from the short time that I have been involved in gyro's is that there are alot of nice people involved in the movement that will bend over backwards to help you. And there are some that would seem to be purley driven by monetary gain. :paper:

[Echo 2]

Nick,
the best thing to do is grab a copy for yourself & have a read of the article , but NO , he doesnt go on to say things have changed.

Good post , Maulonir . " ... bagging machines he doesnt pedal ... ". I know for a fact thats exactly what he did at Natfly to another gyro manufacturer :evil2: .

Echo

[Brian]

I got a sneaking suspicion that this idea of thinking that the European stuff is the only way to go is also evident in the ASRA organization [not pointing the finger at anyone] :poke: :wave:

There is no question that the MT/ELA/Magni appeal to those who like the showroom glitz and the spiel that comes with them and yes, they do have a place in the gyro flying lot but it horses for courses and I have no doubts that the Australian machines are as good or better. Owens machine is streets ahead of the bob sleds as far as looks and finishing goes. Havent flown a bob sled but Birdy summed them up pretty well but I have flown the Newo and my only complaint is that I haven't got one.!! :( :(

The Rosco, well, what can you say, anyone that was fortunate enough to see Birdy's demo in Rob Cookes new gyro would be hard pressed to find a gyro that could fly better!
Be interesting to find out for sure but I reckon the Rosco would have more hours than all the European gyros put together AND have a better safety record !!

Anyone got time to research that one ?????

[russ]

It could be construed that willi is trying to boost his buisness by bagging machines that he doesn't pedal, weather this is intentional or not I don't know. Not good for the overall gyro movement though as it sends the message that unless you can afford a factory built rotax powered machine then you are taking your life into your own hands which couldn't be further from the truth and in the long term will mean less people fly gyro's and less of a future market for gyro manufactures and agents. One thing that i have learnt from the short time that I have been involved in gyro's is that there are alot of nice people involved in the movement that will bend over backwards to help you. And there are some that would seem to be purley driven by monetary gain. :paper:



This same guy has got himself into asra management, could be real interesting when he gets settled in. :omfg:

[bones]

I got a sneaking suspicion that this idea of thinking that the European stuff is the only way to go is also evident in the ASRA organization [not pointing the finger at anyone] :poke: :wave:

There is no question that the MT/ELA/Magni appeal to those who like the showroom glitz and the spiel that comes with them and yes,
Forgeting one arent we :eyebrow:

they do have a place in the gyro flying lot but it horses for courses and I have no doubts that the Australian machines are as good or better. Owens machine is streets ahead of the bob sleds as far as looks and finishing goes. Havent flown a bob sled but Birdy summed them up pretty well but I have flown the Newo and my only complaint is that I haven't got one.!! :( :(

The Rosco, well, what can you say, anyone that was fortunate enough to see Birdy's demo in Rob Cookes new gyro would be hard pressed to find a gyro that could fly better!
Brian, 99% of people who are after a two seat machine dont want to use them for anything other than flying from A to B.
What other choices are there for people to buy though?????
You can but that if OD's were still being made i would be getting one for myself also, but they arent, so the need has to be filled some how. I am thinking of getting a cab put on my single and getting a rossco for work, damn that be 3 gyros how am i gonna keep they all flying then.

[Fencing Wire]

Brian,
We don't hafta research it. Runs are on the board. Can't ever recall anyone credible shit-canning Rosco. The others you mentioned are on "catch-up"
Cheers

[Brian]

Forgeting one arent we eyebrow


No, definitely wasn't forgetting the Xeon, however, from the research I have done, the Xeon is in another class that namely being a side by side and being fully enclosed AND having the ENGINE faired as well!!
IMHO you are streets ahead of the Magni /ELA/ MT

[bones]

Forgeting one arent we eyebrow


No, definitely wasn't forgetting the Xeon, however, from the research I have done, the Xeon is in another class that namely being a side by side and being fully enclosed AND having the ENGINE faired as well!!
IMHO you are streets ahead of the Magni /ELA/ MT


Brian, i was only pullin ya chain, nothing meant by it at all, the rest of my post was the main reason i posted at all :cheers:

[Mitch]

G'Day Gents,

Frankly, I am appauled that the "Safety and Training manager" for ASRA can make such statements and be so keen to take inexperienced newbies on such an arduous journey.

It appears to me his desire to push his product overides any safety issues arising from taking inexperinced pilots on such a trip. And his comments are made as MTO3 rep or Training Manager. Because, if it aint German, it aint no good.

I dont know the man but I do not believe he has the 'cred' to continue on in this volunteer position.....Yes I am aware of his long list of achievements and abilities, however, I have never read such an arrogant irresponsible piece pf crap in my entire time involved with gyros.

As a highly credible member of this association said to me as we talked about recent accident/incident/deaths....'there is a pattern begining to evolve here.'

The man should be asked to retract the unfounded statements in his article and he should be 'cautioned' as to using low time pilots in situations that may be beyond their capabilities, simply to place the product he is pedalling in a more saleable position.

This fellow needs to be retrained to do the job he volunteered to do and he needs to be about safety training and a percieved benefit to the gyro movement and the membership.

Sadly this article puts us back 5 years or more.

How many instructors has he trained, what safety courses or documents has he 'raised'.........how many MTO 3's has he sold, have the clients been entirely happy with the way their product was delivered?

Perhaps we the membership should be more proactive about Safety and Training and who it is that leads us in this regard.

Bloody annoyed that this article went to print. Perhaps the bloke could come on here in his position as ASRA Safety and Training and explain to us why he had this little brain fart.

Mitch :paper:

[Echo 2]

My thoughts exactly , Mitch .

But whats even more disturbing is the same article appeared in the latest Gyro News .

Flying around Australia doesnt take courage - all you need is $$$$.

Lambasting the same members one is supposed to represent is very arrogant.

The top of the heap at ASRA is becoming very cosy .... :evil2:

Eric

[bones]

June edition of Pacific Flyer has an artical by Willie ewig about his big trip.
In the first paragraph he states that "gyros have very bad reputation due to lack of proper training & 99% of all gyros are homebuilt using converted car engines . "

I am curious as to where this figure of 99% came from . "Converted car engines" - I guess is a reference to Subarus ( originally an aircraft engine converted to cars ).

So , reading between the lines ,any one that provides training in anything bar a German built ,Rotax powered machine is adding to gyros "bad reputation ? :confused:

Echo


Hey Echo, if you got a copy of the Spring 2006 gyro news, have a read of 3 pages starting from page 17(especially the pictures of his TRAINING machine), also the front cover, then tell me this guy isnt one of the biggest double standard guys you have ever read some thing about.

[Brian]

As for the statement " converted car engines" Willi might need to do a bit more research into Fuji heavy industries, who I believe made the engine for the Zero fighter who in turn after the war, makes the Subaru engines and vehicles so it could be said that the Suby is actually a aircraft engine converted to a car engine !!

While I do agree, a 912 is a great engine, I often wonder what a brand new Suby 2.2 might do in hours and reliability.

[Mitch]

G'Day Fella's,

Just editing this quickly..........I read part 2 in the Pacific Flyer....reading between the lines Willies a hero and Dons got a sore butt and is a big sook cause he needs a hotel room every night, so does Mick. Sorry Got that arse about.......Dons a real adventurer with attention to detail and safety, which annoyed Willie cause it conflicted with how Willie wanted to run the propaganda show and Wille got the 'Willies' cause Don got the recorded points.

Echo/Bones, just had an interesting discussion with Margie McIntyre, Don's wife. Don being one of the blokes featured in the story. The bloke Willie obviously was trying to embarass by the way it was written. Well I believed that Don and Mick were being be-littled somewhat....Seems Otmar and Willie were tough enough (reads silly enough) to brave the mossies, whilst Don and Mick 'pussied' it out at the pub, again! Sorry is there a problem with wanting to camp at the pub...the Australian thing to do!

Turns out Margie and Don are the couple that went down to Antartica a year or two back, built there own hut and stay a year. These two are the real deal.

www.exfac.com

I remember Art put us onto the daily web update site for this trip, well Margie was the one that kept that going. And apparently what was originally recorded has been since changed to accomodate some 'un-named' persons wishes. Needless to say, comments I have made regarding the disregard that was given to many of the safety issues associated with this journey and low hrs pilots, no way implies the same disregard by Don. It was Don that insisted upon and supplied the safety equipment. Don and Margie are true adventureres on the high seas, the ice and now in the air with gyroplanes.

This situation goes far further than I had originally feared.

I have stated my discontent to the Opps Mgr with the current Safety and Training arrangements ASRA has in place and call for Willie Ewig to resign his position or be retired from this position which he has no time for and no responsibility to maintain.

This post has nothing to do with Don and Margie ( never spoken to Don, never met either of them) and I can not discuss the 'shenanigans' that have been going on in the background with respect to Willie Ewigs article .Needless to say, I have issue with how Willie is doing his job and will post this on the ASRA forum for a possible response from one of our Board Members or President.

Disgruntled member. Safety First.

Fly Safe.

Mitch

[Brian]

Good post there Mitch, puts a bit of perspective into the story.

I suggest you put your comments /thoughts into an email to the entire ASRA board, then it has to be recorded in the minutes or dealt with at the next board meeting.

Good to see you still got plenty of fight in you! :wave: :wave:

[Echo 2]

Funny thing that , Mitch , Vicki read part 2 of the " BIG ADVENTURE " before I did & her comments to me were the exactly the same as yours .......

[Birdy2]

This Willie bloke sounds like sumone i already know ::). Lets hope im rong, theres not enuff room in this country for 2 of um. :evil2:

[Brian]

This Willie bloke sounds like sumone i already know ::). Lets hope im rong, theres not enuff room in this country for 2 of um. :evil2:



:yes:

[Mitch]

G'Day Gents,

Willie Ewig rang me left his number so I called him back.

Seems Willie has issue with me having issues with him.

Willie thought I had called him an 'arse' or a 'hero' and that it was derogatory or offended him in some way.

After telling Willie why I had issue with him, see previous posts, I then offered to re-visit my posts and if I had called him an ass or a hero I would sincerely re-tract it. Which I do. I mean I may have referred to him as a hero but I certainly didin't mean it. I dont see where I called him an 'ass' or an 'arse'.

Willie says he just offered to take on the position of Safety and Training to help Allan out. Great! But I thought the training and Safety Manager had work to his own to do. I told Willie if operational procedures are changing around us, operations manuals get update and re-written accordingly, this is done by the Opps Mgr. Surely as we get access to more airfields and aerodromes, there might be some safety and training issues that become obvious. And if you have offered your time and you have no work, then ask if there is a task to do.

I got the distinct feeling that Willie only put his hand up because no one else wanted it. He as much said so.

He claimed nothing went wrong on the trip and everything he did was safe because they all got back safe. "Would Don agree with what you are saying to me?" I asked...."Oh well, that's Don..."
Wille claimed Mick has thousands of hrs, which I dont doubt, but "How many hrs in a gyro before you left?" I asked. "What does that matter?" says willie. "You will never have anywhere near the amount of hrs Mick has."
"Of course not" I replied. "How many hours in a gyro was that?" "It does not matter." Hhhmmm! Am I missing something here?

If the shite had of hit the fan day 1 or 2, what would Willie have said or done then.......Ah! but it didn't they all got home safe in their MT-O3's. Imagine ASRA's position if their Safety and Training Manager had a mechanical failure, something above and beyond Willies abilities to avoid a catastophy. And one of the ones to perish was Mick or Don......Willie doesn't get it.

So I said to him, my Butterfly has a rotax and is new generation, you bag that and my mates subbie powered machines, you bag them, you state % from where I dont know and you be-little your team mates in your article. And you seem to have no regard for the rest of the membership with your comments in your article. Willie thinks we are all reading between the lines.

Well Wille I said I'd apologise if I called you names and I'm sorry I called you a hero.
As I said to you on the phone you might need to make some apologises of your own....."What ...who do I have to apologise to..." That's when I said we agree to disagree and that you need to do the job be proactive or stand down and I did apologise at that time for being an arrogant Australian.

I retract that apology Willie I'm no more arrogant than some European friends of mine, one of them is a German.

I have made no reference to anything other than the flight around Australia and my concerns that Willie doesn't quite get it. So language barriers aside, I still hold the same position. And look forward to more discussions with other members of the Around Oz team.

Is there anyone out there who has a background that would lend itself to the volunteer position of Safety and Training Manager. And might be interested?

Mitch.

[skywilli]

Statement:

I'm now in a position to reply to the posts on this forum regarding my personality, and about the recent trip I have done with Don, Mick, and Otmar.

You will find all your answers now, and I do have some questions for you as well. Please don't hesitate to answer, but please with common sense, and without abusing me. Thanks

echo:
June edition of Pacific Flyer has an artical by Willie ewig about his big trip.
In the first paragraph he states that "gyros have very bad reputation due to lack of proper training & 99% of all gyros are homebuilt using converted car engines . "
I am curious as to where this figure of 99% came from . "Converted car engines" - I guess is a reference to Subarus ( originally an aircraft engine converted to cars ).
So , reading between the lines ,any one that provides training in anything bar a German built ,Rotax powered machine is adding to gyros "bad reputation ?

My statement for the bad reputation comes from the beginning of gyros.
It is a fact that so many pilots died because of lack of training, as well as technical problems. I was not referring to the present, but I did talk about the beginnings of our great sport.

It seems like that some pilots misunderstood my words, if this is the case, sorry.

The Subaru engines used for gyros come originally from the Subaru car. That's also a fact. The originally converted aircraft engine you are talking about is history. Please tell me if I'm wrong.

What you read between the lines is your opinion, not mine, nor what I have ever mentioned.

brian:
I thinks Willi needs to do a little more research.
He obviously hasn't heard of Rosco & Tim and the number of aircraft they have in the air.
Is he saying that he, [Willi] is the only proper instructor ?
There is no doubt that the Magni /ELA /MT are very good, well built, safe gyros but they are way too expensive for what they are.

Well, I was flying in Mongolia with a Ross Symes-type machine. Did I ever say something negative about it? No.
And, what makes you think that I'm the only proper instructor?
Did I say that, or mention that, or in between the lines mean that?

niquenaque:
Eric,
Does Willi go on to say that things have changed??

Yes, I still say things have changed. There is a fully certified gyro on the market, and with Magni/ELA/MT-03/Xenon there are now gyroplanes available, factory build for people out there who are not keen on building, or can't build, or simply have the money to purchase such a machine.
Do they have to build they're own machine to be recognized in the gyro-family?

maulonir:
It could be construed that willi is trying to boost his buisness by bagging machines that he doesn't pedal, weather this is intentional or not I don't know. Not good for the overall gyro movement though as it sends the message that unless you can afford a factory built rotax powered machine then you are taking your life into your own hands which couldn't be further from the truth and in the long term will mean less people fly gyro's and less of a future market for gyro manufactures and agents. One thing that i have learnt from the short time that I have been involved in gyro's is that there are alot of nice people involved in the movement that will bend over backwards to help you. And there are some that would seem to be purley driven by monetary gain.

Well, is it wrong to promote my business at the same time as gyros in general?

I have done plenty of good promotion for the sport of gyros. I did talk about gyros!
You take your life in your hands, regardless of what you fly!
It is great to see such a wide variety of different machines on the market now. Great!
I wanted to prove that gyros fly safe, for short trips, cross country, or long trips, and they are reliable. I wanted to encourage pilots to do tours, to fly to places.

brian:
I got a sneaking suspicion that this idea of thinking that the European stuff is the only way to go is also evident in the ASRA organization [not pointing the finger at anyone]

There is no question that the MT/ELA/Magni appeal to those who like the showroom glitz and the spiel that comes with them and yes, they do have a place in the gyro flying lot but it horses for courses and I have no doubts that the Australian machines are as good or better. Owens machine is streets ahead of the bob sleds as far as looks and finishing goes. Havent flown a bob sled but Birdy summed them up pretty well but I have flown the Newo and my only complaint is that I haven't got one.!!
The Rosco, well, what can you say, anyone that was fortunate enough to see Birdy's demo in Rob Cookes new gyro would be hard pressed to find a gyro that could fly better!
Be interesting to find out for sure but I reckon the Rosco would have more hours than all the European gyros put together AND have a better safety record !!
Anyone got time to research that one ?????

Well, is there anybody out there who has done a trip like this in an Australian made gyro? I know Ian Morcombe flew across Australia quite a few years ago, and John McQueen flew north-south, boys flew from WA to SA, and others from QLD to SA, and that is great! Please tell me of any others. Thanks.

I never said the MT-03 is the ultimate. The fact that we did use MT03s to fly a total of 50,000 km with 4 machines, in 2 weeks - what's wrong with that?

russell:
This same guy has got himself into asra management, could be real interesting when he gets settled in.

Is Tim McClure, or Allan involved in the business, and also have a position within ASRA? If they can, why can’t I? Did anyone else put their hand up to involve themselves in “ASRA management”? I was trying to relieve Allan of some of his heavy responsibilities. ASRA is short of people willing to help.

mitch:
G'Day Gents,

Frankly, I am appauled that the "Safety and Training manager" for ASRA can make such statements and be so keen to take inexperienced newbies on such an arduous journey.

It’s a shame that you didn't do your homework!
Inexperienced pilots: for Don, you mentioned he is a great adventurer; he is indeed! Would you think he wants to come with me on such a great trip without having the background and knowledge of what is going to happen on a trip?

On one hand you recognise him as an adventurer, and on the other hand you think he's a little boy, not knowing what's going to happen? That doesn’t make sense, or fit together.

I did not asked Mick, nor Don to follow me; both asked to come with Otmar and me.

Mick is a commercial pilot, probably got more hours in all sorts of aircraft that you will ever achieve.

Do you think it is safer to teach someone to fly, and send him home to fly on his own, or just maybe it is safer to fly under the supervision of your instructor? Did you think of it that way? We were all in radio contact.

So what's unsafe?

It appears to me his desire to push his product overides any safety issues arising from taking inexperinced pilots on such a trip. And his comments are made as MTO3 rep or Training Manager. Because, if it aint German, it aint no good.

Did I say ‘if it aint german, it aint good’?

I dont know the man but I do not believe he has the 'cred' to continue on in this volunteer position.....Yes I am aware of his long list of achievements and abilities, however, I have never read such an arrogant irresponsible piece pf crap in my entire time involved with gyros.

If you have the experience, and the ability to do the job better than me, please feel free put yourself forward for Board consideration!

As a highly credible member of this association said to me as we talked about recent accident/incident/deaths....'there is a pattern begining to evolve here.'

The man should be asked to retract the unfounded statements in his article and he should be 'cautioned' as to using low time pilots in situations that may be beyond their capabilities, simply to place the product he is pedalling in a more saleable position.

This fellow needs to be retrained to do the job he volunteered to do and he needs to be about safety training and a percieved benefit to the gyro movement and the membership.

Sadly this article puts us back 5 years or more.
Why does this article put us back 5 years? I don’t understand.

How many instructors has he trained, what safety courses or documents has he 'raised'.........how many MTO 3's has he sold, have the clients been entirely happy with the way their product was delivered?
I have trained plenty of instructors, no worries.
I have sold 11 MT-03's
Why don't you ask the owners? Easy as!

Perhaps we the membership should be more proactive about Safety and Training and who it is that leads us in this regard.

Bloody annoyed that this article went to print.
Did we have in the last 7 month 5 accidents? What's better for the public? A story like this or accidents?

Perhaps the bloke could come on here in his position as ASRA Safety and Training and explain to us why he had this little brain fart.
I don't talk about your language, that's well beneath my dignity to respond.

It is a pity you have speculated in this manner, when so much of what you said is inaccurate. Don’t you think your concerns would be better discussed at a Board meeting, not on a public forum? Or write of your concerns to the Board.

echo:
My thoughts exactly , Mitch .
But whats even more disturbing is the same article appeared in the latest Gyro News .
Flying around Australia doesnt take courage - all you need is $$$$.
Lambasting the same members one is supposed to represent is very arrogant.
Well then just do it yourself. What is stopping you? It cost us about A$2500 each, just like a 2 week holiday. Why don't you just go, and do a similar trip?

You judge me, but you do not know me. What makes you think you are entitled to do so?

The top of the heap at ASRA is becoming very cosy ....
I notice volunteers are called for in almost every edition of Gyro News. Have you volunteered yet?

bones:
Hey Echo, if you got a copy of the Spring 2006 gyro news, have a read of 3 pages starting from page 17(especially the pictures of his TRAINING machine), also the front cover, then tell me this guy isnt one of the biggest double standard guys you have ever read some thing about.
What's wrong with publicity? Surely it is good for the sport? I have been fortunate enough to be able to upgrade from that basic training machine to something better.

If you feel I'm the biggest double standard guy, that’s up to you. It’s your personal opinion!

brian:
As for the statement " converted car engines" Willi might need to do a bit more research into Fuji heavy industries, who I believe made the engine for the Zero fighter who in turn after the war, makes the Subaru engines and vehicles so it could be said that the Suby is actually a aircraft engine converted to a car engine !!
While I do agree, a 912 is a great engine, I often wonder what a brand new Suby 2.2 might do in hours and reliability.

I just say Rotax is an aircraft engine. It is designed for aircrafts; it’s certified. Could you certify an aircraft with a Subaru engine?

mich:
Just editing this quickly..........I read part 2 in the Pacific Flyer....reading between the lines Willies a hero and Dons got a sore butt and is a big sook cause he needs a hotel room every night, so does Mick. Sorry Got that arse about.......Dons a real adventurer with attention to detail and safety, which annoyed Willie cause it conflicted with how Willie wanted to run the propaganda show and Wille got the 'Willies' cause Don got the recorded points.
Well, you are talking about things you do not know.
You do not know anything about the background, or any facts. But, you do talk! Does that make you feel better? Fine, go ahead.

Echo/Bones, just had an interesting discussion with Margie McIntyre, Don's wife. Don being one of the blokes featured in the story. The bloke Willie obviously was trying to embarass by the way it was written. Well I believed that Don and Mick were being be-littled somewhat....Seems Otmar and Willie were tough enough (reads silly enough) to brave the mossies, whilst Don and Mick 'pussied' it out at the pub, again! Sorry is there a problem with wanting to camp at the pub...the Australian thing to do!

Is there a problem with camping, sleeping in a swag? Isn't this an Australia thing to do especially for two German guys? We had a dream, and we fulfilled it. What is your dream with gyros? What are you doing about fulfilling that dream? We acted on ours; we didn’t just talk about it. Am I not allowed to tell the story? If you don't like it, don't read it.

Turns out Margie and Don are the couple that went down to Antartica a year or two back, built there own hut and stay a year. These two are the real deal.

Didn't I mention at the end of the story that Don has completed the trip, and is the first Australian who circumnavigated Australia, and also didn’t I mention Margie with her endless work to keep the website running?

www.exfac.com

I remember Art put us onto the daily web update site for this trip, well Margie was the one that kept that going. And apparently what was originally recorded has been since changed to accomodate some 'un-named' persons wishes. Needless to say, comments I have made regarding the disregard that was given to many of the safety issues associated with this journey and low hrs pilots, no way implies the same disregard by Don. It was Don that insisted upon and supplied the safety equipment. Don and Margie are true adventureres on the high seas, the ice and now in the air with gyroplanes.

This situation goes far further than I had originally feared.

I have stated my discontent to the Opps Mgr with the current Safety and Training arrangements ASRA has in place and call for Willie Ewig to resign his position or be retired from this position which he has no time for and no responsibility to maintain.

This post has nothing to do with Don and Margie ( never spoken to Don, never met either of them) and I can not discuss the 'shenanigans' that have been going on in the background with respect to Willie Ewigs article .Needless to say, I have issue with how Willie is doing his job and will post this on the ASRA forum for a possible response from one of our Board Members or President.

Disgruntled member. Safety First.

By the way, I'm sitting here, Sunday night, trying to do ASRA work.
But, I get interrupted with some personal issues on a forum on a website.

birdy:
This Willie bloke sounds like sumone i already know ::). Lets hope im rong, theres not enuff room in this country for 2 of um.

I don't know you, so I assume you don't know me. These guys on the forum have certainly painted a distorted picture of me; I would like to have a ‘yarn’ with you some time birdy.

If you guys have a problem with me, why don't you contact me, and try to sort that out, or is it just to pick on me, as a German, coming in this country, and running a successful business? What is it? Please help me understand your attitudes.

I do not expect straight answers from the above mentioned fellow pilots, but I do believe there is common sense out there, in the remaining gyro world.

There is room enough for all our machines, every body can make his own decision what he is going to do, build, or purchase.

Does everybody really need your personal opinions?

If you have a story of great gyro achievements, why don’t you also write it up and have it published? Again, it would be good for the sport.

The end.....

[Brian]

Hi Willi, great to see you on the forum, . Thats one long post there so it goes to show you can certainly type better than me !!

A few things Willi,and I do not pretend to know all the trips made but I know personally of one fellow who flew around Australia without any ground support back in the 90's, he worked his way around mustering here and there and I'm petty sure it was a McClure frame and a suby motor. This same fellow later built a RAF pod with a McClure frame powered by a Suby 2.2 that did 3800 hours without overhaul before being replaced, not because it broke down but because the owner had a lot of work coming up.
My own gyro has a Suby 2.2 that did 2200 hours before spitting a idler on the cam belt. It was reported to have done 60,000K's before it was fitted to my gyro and this motor is still not using oil approaching 2500 hours.

I have no idea if you could certify a aircraft using a Suby motor but I do know that a few RV's and other aircraft in the USA are flying with Suby motors.


Yes, the 912 is a certified motor and it is a extremely good motor, its revolutionized gyros allowing machines like the MT /Magni etc to come in as light as they do. BUT, it is extremely expensive unfortunately.

You have a treat in store for you when you meet Birdy Willi, an extremely good instinctive pilot who has a great feel for evaluating gyros, is very honest and calls it exactly as it is. I take what he say's about a gyro very literally.

I have read your ad in the Gyro news and I note that you say the MT is quote " also perfect for Mustering and Flight training" end of quote. I sincerely doubt that the MT or the Magni would make "perfect mustering aircraft"!! Yes, most certainly, they could be used as I know of a fellow who in a pinch uses his Cessna 210 'mustering' but he certainly doesn't call the C 210 ideal for the job.
The truly perfect mustering gyro is a single place, open framed 912 powered gyro, probably a Rosco built, tough as guts and sold with 24 hour 7 day a week service !! All parts[except tank, motor, wheels, tyres, prop, rotors] are made in house. These gyros have countless hours of product testing, at least 30,000 hours that I know off. Thats pretty impressive stats in anyone language.

Yes, I read your article with interest when you instructed in a Rosco 2 seater oversees. The gyro was on the from cover.

[russ]

*" this same guy has just got himself into asra management, could be real interesting when he gets settled in"

Willy.............received a couple of ph calls, in part, relaying comments you were making to the general public at an "aviation gathering" a month or 3 ago.
"They" were in no doubt, that you intimated that your machines were superior, and "most" other gyros were just homebuilts, with recycled car engines.
Other sublime comments degrading all "homebuilts" was leaving a very clear view to passerbys, that by not purchasing "factory built" machines, they were risking their safety etc etc.

Hence, my comments above......................

Yes, Tim and Allan have a degree of commercial interest in gyros, as do quite a few other members.........yet to hear any of them saying anything along the lines of your comments.

Just remember, this last 30 odd years, "homebuilds" have been doing just fine, yes we had teething problems, we learnt, we changed as required, and "home builds" have got massive hours up now.
"factory builds" are "newbies" by comparison.

As to your recent oz excursion.........well done, i applaud you all. However, i would like to know the factual hours of gyro flying, by all pilots involved, prior to departure,............any low time pilots doing that would raise my concerns, but that's me.
I'm all for extending our wings, but i'm getting old now, and "safely" is becoming more a term i use now.
Done many a crazy thing years back, got away with it........most times, but now i'm more wiser. If me kid tried some of my early crazyness, i'de chop his legs off.

Anyway.........just replying to your post


side note................were "all" pilots endorsed for "Cross Country"........hope so.

[ nuthin like being disoreintated and not knowing what to do about it, relying on others in the pack to "get you there", ain't a good call. ]

[Mitch]

Dear Willie,

Good to see you have the Nads to get on board and have a go BUT please dont make it a race issue. My comments about language barriers was genuine, it can be difficult to understand an angry German as no doubt an angry Aussie is probably the same.

Glad you are doing asra work as we speak. Many of us help out in small ways. You put your hand up for a rather big title and job responsibility and whilst I could not find a duty statement for the position of Training and Safety Manager, the Ops Manual certainly lists Statement of Duties and Responsibilities for Training Officer and for Chief Training Pilot, which are mostly similar and do indeed answer to the Ops Mgr.


"My statement for the bad reputation comes from the beginning of gyros.
It is a fact that so many pilots died because of lack of training, as well as technical problems. I was not referring to the present, but I did talk about the beginnings of our great sport."

"It seems like that some pilots misunderstood my words, if this is the case, sorry."

Willie this is what most of the blokes were piss off about because that is not what you said and you could so easily have used it (the article) to drive the movement forward but through the wording of your article....some of us felt you took us backwards.......and some of us feel you may not have acted in a truely reasonable manner. Just because Mick wanted to go dosent make it the right thing to do. And hey I still have no problem with anyone having thousands of hrs more than me....it's not a contest or a race Willie.

A lot of rebuttals you have posted, would have been great promo stuff in your article. The thing is most of us did not read it as you promoing the sport generally. Maybe that's our fault.

There's no shame here, I did some homework, enough to know you dont always have to be able to do something better than someone else to know that their just coasting and not being pro-active enough to be really helping the movement, selling 11 gyros, well OK that's great for you but are you sure you still have enough time to Section 1.04 No5....By personal example provide a high level of training and general flying practices that will serve as an example for other instructors.
No6 Liase ands make recommendations to the Ops Mgr regarding the overall std of gyroplane operations in Australia.

Don knew what he was getting into to a degree and it was Don who supplied safety equipment good but I'm not sure you would have insisted on the same level of safety gear...just a guess. My use of words was designed to be comedic not confusing, I am sorry.

OK so it's safer now to train a guy and straight out of the box put him in his new MTO3 and supervise him whilst you fly the four points of OZ afterall it only cost $2500. Heck why not make it mandatory as the Safety and Training Mgr to have this as part of the solo endorsement, much safer than sending him home of course. Why did I not see that.

I have a background in training and safety but you know what Willie, I dont have all the flying hrs or endorsements or aircraft operational expertise that you come to the table with. But I'd be a damn site more pro-active. This is not about Mick having heaps of hrs fixed wing, it's about him having next to nil before the journey. You are fortunate your faith in the MTO3 did not result in a less than succesfull result.

This article puts us back 5 years because of the way you tried to get your message across. The terms used and the phrasing, as stated by someone else, reads like all homebuilts and suby powered units are the problem for the bad 'rep'.

I dont know how much of what I have said is inacurate but I can tell you this Willie if you've come on here to rebutt and that's the best you can do, It did'nt work for me.
I dont care to have a war with you but I would like a proactive Safety and Training Mgr, that would think again before conducting such a journey with low hrs pilots, even if their bustin their nuts to get on board. I want a Safety and Training manager that writes an article about a fabulous effort to fly 4 new generation MTO3 gyroplanes to the four points of OZ, to write that article without denegrating the gyros that the rest of us fly and without making Mick and Don but especially Don, look like a 'whose'. Many people who read that article felt the same, sorry Willie, thems just the facts as I see it.

Personally I should not have made the comment about if it aint German etc as everything German I have owned I have loved, The BMW Bike RS100S and the TDi Polo, a girl I once knew and a fine watch. I understand there are some issues with cracks in the uppersection of the mast on one craft, and lets be real the MTO3 is a German Magni No!

Now I dont want your volunteered job position. I am prepared to help you if that is at all possible as I have a background in Training, Trainers. I have assisted ASRA previously in this regard. There is much work that can be done right now in the Safety and Training arena.

Thanks for using the forum its a great place to get together and work toward a common goal.

Oh yeah and Birdy has been an instructor for some time now, playing an important role in getting pilots through the low level endorsement stuff, I would have assumed you would have had safety and Training discusions with him long before we distorted his view of you. Willie I'll give you straight answers what makes you think I wouldn't.

I've written some articles and lived some dreams and yes it's OK for two good old boys from Germany to swag it.

Here's one, why not get agreement that having fuel in seat tanks inside the cabin of a two place machine is simply not on, not acceptable in any new place machines built after a certain date. Like after the 1st of July 2008, this would give present two place builds time to finish and register under the old regs. We dont want to loose two blokes in an incident like the one in Tassie recently.

Mitch

[russ]

Quote.............

Here's one, why not get agreement that having fuel in seat tanks inside the cabin of a two place machine is simply not on, not acceptable in any new place machines built after a certain date. Like after the 1st of July 2008, this would give present two place builds time to finish and register under the old regs. We dont want to loose two blokes in an incident like the one in Tassie recently.


Be real careful we don't throw the baby out with the bath water here. Can see every single 2 seater cabined machine, with big problems achieving external fuels .
The seat tanks we all use, and the RAF tanks, are made from some bleeding strong plasticky stuff, you can belt the hell out of it with a sledge hammer.......no probs. These type tanks have been in use for many years, well proven, robust etc, i think this recent accident was of extraordinary forces to do what it did. Nothing is bullit proof.

Repeating, these styled tanks have been around for a long time..........incurred many accidents world wide,
to my knowledge, this is the first to completely rupture etc on impact. Again, there must have been extraordinary forces involved.

[Echo 2]

Willi,
" .... I do not expect straight answers from the above mentioned fellow pilots.... "


Why would that be , Willi ?

" ...have you volunteered yet ? "


As a matter of fact , yes I have - I volunteered for the position you have . I guess your CV must have read better than mine .

I don't have a problem with Germans - my late Grandfather is German . If I had a problem with you I wouldnt be refering potential students on to you as my machine isnt ready for training.


If you are going to stand up & defend yourself , then answer this truthfully - did you or did you not lambast a fellow gyro instructor/manufacturer regarding him & his machines at Natfly last Easter ?
If you answer ' no ' then you are a liar ........ :moon:

Eric Hoskinson Ph. 67944623

[Brian]

Willi, the around Australia trip was fantastic, a great promo and it had the attention of a lot of people and yes, it demonstrated that a gyro could be bought off the shop floor and flown safely around Australia. We need gyros like the MT /ELA /Magni, Xeon, Sparrow Hawk etc, its great for the sport of gyro flying to show people that you can buy and fly a gyro without knowing a lot about gyros. I refer there to someone who might want a Rosco, they have to know what engine /rotors /prop/ and a heap of other stuff that are options ,depending on what you need your gyro for.

However, in saying anything, you have to be careful as to what you say, specially when its being reported.

I guess the thing I see that stands out is that IMHO ,I do not think anyone with 40 hours gyro under his belt, is ready for a long trip, having done a bit of flying, I can say that 8/ 10 hour days are tiring , specially as you get older. I do have a FW license as well with a 1000 odd hours and can say that gyro flying is a tad more tiring than sitting in a Cessna 172 for the same time.

It was a pity you didnt get to the Nationals, you could have met in person all those pilots you mentioned who couldnt be expected to give straight answer's . :poke: :poke:

[skywilli]

hi mitch,

He claimed nothing went wrong on the trip and everything he did was safe because they all got back safe. "Would Don agree with what you are saying to me?" I asked...."Oh well, that's Don..."

we have NOT talked about DON, and i DID NOT made this statement!

please, be realistic!

and: in case you need the contact details of don, or mick, i could give it to you.

thanks guys for your answers. thanks for the more appropriate level of communication.

by the way, i have expected honest answers of you. you guys are not face less. thanks.

willi

pps: i normally don't talk about my competition, i have just meant that 3 MT-03's turned up by air, and 2 "others" came by trailer, and got unfortunately not of the trailer.
the sky is big, room for all of us!

[Aussie_Paul]

I do have a FW license as well with a 1000 odd hours and can say that gyro flying is a tad more tiring than sitting in a Cessna 172 for the same time.



You ought to get a stable gyro then Brian. :joy: You don't get any more tired flying a stable gyro than a 172. :no:

I flew a Mt03 today. A lovely, "smooth as silk" cruising gyroplane, BUT bloody cold today. :(:(

Aussie Paul. :wave:

[Llewella]

Hey Paul,

Do you now need a ski / snow endorsement? Great pictures of the white-out in Ballarat today!!! Is that where you were flying the MT-03?

[Birdy2]

I don't know you, so I assume you don't know me.
Thats rite.
These guys on the forum have certainly painted a distorted picture of me;
Yup.
I would like to have a ‘yarn’ with you some time birdy.
Anytime mate, in person would be best tho.
Ill yarn with anyone bout gyros, black, white or brindle. :blahblah: :friday:

[Mitch]

Tit fot tat

hi mitch,

He claimed nothing went wrong on the trip and everything he did was safe because they all got back safe. "Would Don agree with what you are saying to me?" I asked...."Oh well, that's Don..."

we have NOT talked about DON, and i DID NOT made this statement!

please, be realistic!

and: in case you need the contact details of don, or mick, i could give it to you.
...

Bullshit! We did talk about Don and you did make that statement.
So along with the other crap I've heard now I know you to be dishonest as well. Thanks for clarifying that for me Willie. Realistically that is.

I have contact details but thanks again for offering something you have no right to offer, Shoot I dont think even a board member can hand out that sort of info unless the member has agreed to be publicly listed and I have the lists, so Thanks.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

thanks guys for your answers. thanks for the more appropriate level of communication.

by the way, i have expected honest answers of you. you guys are not face less. thanks.

willi

...

Gee I hope that means me to Willie, because Ive tried to be as honest and as upfront as I can be, you on the other hand seem to have a little under-handed apology tucked away at every response.
More appropriate level of communication.......what the way you are now tip toeing around it all or something more like this from Echo.....

"If you are going to stand up & defend yourself , then answer this truthfully - did you or did you not lambast a fellow gyro instructor/manufacturer regarding him & his machines at Natfly last Easter ?
If you answer ' no ' then you are a liar ........ Moon

Eric Hoskinson Ph. 67944623

You know who I am Willie, you rang me remember. Mitch 63834908 rocksfly@gmail.com

...

"pps: i normally don't talk about my competition, i have just meant that 3 MT-03's turned up by air, and 2 "others" came by trailer, and got unfortunately not of the trailer.
the sky is big, room for all of us!"

...

Another little duck shovelling peice and then the Pièce de résistance ..."The sky is big, room for us all."
I just love it.
That's it from me on this subject.


Noe Russell ole Mate,

I am referring I believe to dual/two place craft. Reasoning being that most singles are open frame or open partial pod. Plus an individual is entitled to make that call for him/herself.

In a two place situation we have ample examples of getting the fireworks out of the cabin. Why would we want to continue on with such bad practice. Again, it is the wife or friend in the cabin with the doors on, that may not stand a chance. We gyronaughts make these decisions for ourselves. We should not be making those decisions for someone going up on a TIF....

I think the US boys have many examples of these tanks rupturing and bursting into flames and not so long ago a bloke got burnt and killed when his gyro went in and burst into flames. I am sure there are recorded fire balls on the mainland to Russ.

Now I have seen plenty of single place and twoplace machines that carry fuel external to there shells or pods and SamL recently posted a two place 6 piece polyester cabin that can accomodate seat tanks or jerry cans or welded alum tanks etc.

Personally I think this is a reasonable motion for future safety, I dont want to throw the baby out.......Oh this might be what Willie meant about being reasonable but he's far to cryptic for me.

Mitch.

[Aussie_Paul]

Hey Paul,

Do you now need a ski / snow endorsement? Great pictures of the white-out in Ballarat today!!! Is that where you were flying the MT-03?


Yes Llewella G-1234. We got a RAA level 2 to conduct the 100 hourly on the Rotax yesterday while it was snowing.

Aussie Paul. :)

[Brian]

I do have a FW license as well with a 1000 odd hours and can say that gyro flying is a tad more tiring than sitting in a Cessna 172 for the same time.



You ought to get a stable gyro then Brian. :joy: You don't get any more tired flying a stable gyro than a 172. :no:

I flew a Mt03 today. A lovely, "smooth as silk" cruising gyroplane, BUT bloody cold today. :(:(

Aussie Paul. :wave:


Paul, I take your point BUT, you have bought up an interesting thing and thats the exposure to the elements be it cold /heat /wind etc etc. 40 hours in a FW doesnt get you an unrestricted licence !!!!

Would you say a pilot with 40 hours is ready for a trip as demanding as a around Australia trip Paul ??? Would you recommend it and endorse it ??? :wave: :wave:

[Aussie_Paul]

Paul, I take your point BUT, you have bought up an interesting thing and thats the exposure to the elements be it cold /heat /wind etc etc. 40 hours in a FW doesnt get you an unrestricted licence !!!!

Would you say a pilot with 40 hours is ready for a trip as demanding as a around Australia trip Paul ??? Would you recommend it and endorse it ??? :wave: :wave:


That would depend on a lot of factors Brian, and I think it is possible that Don would have been up to it with his previous experiences inside and outside of aviation.

I certainly would not recomend or endorse it though. :no: :no:

Aussie Paul. :wave:

[Mitch]

G'Day Gents,

Today I was told that I was a 'terrier', that I was hurting ASRA and that I was slandering a good man who apparently does more for the association than is commonly known. I was told It could be construed (read between the lines) that I was making comment on behalf of Allan Wardill the Ops Mgr and then that I was actually hurting Allan Wardill through my posts.

I responded by suggesting I'm more like a Rottwieler (in my own small mind), than a terrier, that ASRA has so much other stuff going on that CASA as I wrote would not be interested unless rules are broken and I requested to be shown the slanderous parts of my posts.

OK this is all you get from me.....

IMHO, I didn't like the article at all, I thought it was inacurate and selfserving. I felt there were belittling little digs at some members of the party, one in particular. I thought the Safety and Training Mgr took liberties with his safety responsibilities, with allowing Don and Mick to join the adventure, perhaps a notation on their licenses would have been one way to prevent them from doing the flight.

Our licences are subject to instruments and other ratings. So it's not like ASRA had no say in what the new pilots can or can not do. Shit I got pulled on for flying exactly 25nm from Cranbourne once, because I posted and made reference to it as a cross country flight to get a cappacino. No endorsement to fly further.

It's not, nor has it ever been my intent to slander Willie Ewig, I have tremendous respect for multiple aircraft high hrs pilots/instructors. My concerns were for the perception of the article and how it would be recieved and obviously I was not the first to object. And I was not the only one to miss construe/read between the lines.

I have not nor do I ever make comments on behalf of the Operations Manager.

I have not contributed to this thread by way of anything that the Operations Manager has said to me. All information I have sourced else where.

This is my last contributing post as I concurr that given the present state of the ASRA leaderships problems, anything which includes comments that may show ASRA to be on a more slippery slope than it already is, will most likely add to the fuel load or increase the rate of the slide.

If I have hurt Allan Wardill in anyway by these posts then I apologise to him for that.

I recognise it is unfair for me to ask like-minded members to let this thread die a natural death but I ask this of you because I know you blokes will be fair and reasonable, unlike myself who apparently just likes to destroy people......we can follow the smoke in other ways.


Mitch.
rocksfly@gmail.com
Ph 03 63834908
0419 254 851

[bones]

G'Day Gents,

Today I was told that I was a 'terrier', that I was hurting ASRA and that I was slandering a good man who apparently does more for the association than is commonly known.


OHHHHHH really well i had a very interesting phone call from a fella whom, 2 months prior to going down to him, arranged to have a 5 day block with the said TRAINING MANAGER, to get in as many hurs they could aiming for about 15 hrs over the 5 days and after that he would have a good idea of whiether or not gyros were for him, and then could go further or not.
Well after the end of the 4th day he had only managed about i think 5-6 hrs, ohh really i asked crapy weather?
No was the reply, it seems that there tourists there whom were hang gliders, so the instructor was busy towing them for glides instead of instructing this fella who had prebooked, taken time off work, and travelled a long way to start his flight training, there were not too many nice words coming across the phone lines about the so called instructor atitude towards flying gyros with him, and quiet a few other things that i wont go into now.
The fella also mentioned that after this experience he was ABOUT TO WALK AWAY FROM FLYING GYROS, i asked him to wait a little while and when things get going with my machine i would fly down and take him for a fly FREE of charge some 5 hrs one way to try to keep him interested in gyros.

If this is doing more for the association than is commonly known, you can count me out then :evil2: :dizzy:

[hatrack]

Bones. Was this interested person from Coppabella? If so I have met him and he now has renewed interest in flying gyros. He's after a single with a prerotator if you know of one.
Hatrack.

[Brian]

Mitch, was that all that lovely lady called you....sorry..person who rang you??

Terrier huh , I reckon something more savage would more coming, Rottweiler or something appropiate.